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Old 05-19-03, 09:36 AM   #169
Joe DeFuria
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Quote:
Originally posted by Behemoth
more i think about clip planes more i think its a bug, clip planes only clip things away, why it corrupts the viewport? by inserting clip planes at known distances you only lose geomtries beyond the manually set borders, it does not corrupts viewport, this clip plane theory holds no water, it doesnt explain why everything mess up when you switch to off-the-rail free look mode.
So, what gets "displayed" by the graphics card when the geometry that is "lost" is suppossed to be seen -- as is the case when you move off the rails?

In other words, it DOES CORRUPT THE VIEWPORT as soon as the viewport is supposed to include that which is clipped away.

I think what you are missing, is that the errors are not encountered simply by turning free-look on. They are encountered when after you turn on free-look, you also MOVE off the rail.

"Free-look" doesn't cause the error. It allows the error to be seen.
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Old 05-19-03, 09:47 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joe DeFuria
So, what gets "displayed" by the graphics card when the geometry that is "lost" is suppossed to be seen -- as is the case when you move off the rails?

In other words, it DOES CORRUPT THE VIEWPORT as soon as the viewport is supposed to include that which is clipped away.

I think what you are missing, is that the errors are not encountered simply by turning free-look on. They are encountered when after you turn on free-look, you also MOVE off the rail.

"Free-look" doesn't cause the error. It allows the error to be seen.
have you play any game that let you set clip plane distance? have you used any application that let you set clip plane distance?
i have!!! both everquest and maya4.5 let me set clip plane distance, i believe Dark Age of Camelot has it too, it only cuts things away, it does NOT corrupt things, its called CLIP plane, not CORRUPT plane. you can change it repeatedly in-game or in-application.
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Old 05-19-03, 09:53 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally posted by Behemoth
have you play any game that let you set clip plane distance? have you used any application that let you set clip plane distance?
i have!!! both everquest and maya4.5 let me set clip plane distance, i believe Dark Age of Camelot has it too, it only cuts things away, it does NOT corrupt things, its called CLIP plane, not CORRUPT plane. you can change it repeatedly in-game or in-application.
Have you ever gone outside those clip planes? If you did, you'd get the corruption you see in 3DMark. Obviously, the applications in question won't let you go outside those planes because of the way the game is coded (as well as the fact that nVidia's drivers aren't cheating in them ).
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Old 05-19-03, 09:54 AM   #172
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Quote:
Originally posted by Behemoth
have you play any game that let you set clip plane distance? have you used any application that let you set clip plane distance?
i have!!! both everquest and maya4.5 let me set clip plane distance, i believe Dark Age of Camelot has it too, it only cuts things away, it does NOT corrupt things, its called CLIP plane, not CORRUPT plane. you can change it repeatedly in-game or in-application.
you fail to see the difference or the point of joe's post

I highly recommend doing some indepth research of your own as to what exactly 3dmark03 DOES and perhaps THEN you may see why clipping planes is not acceptable in this benchmark the way nvidia implemented them...

it will save us all a lot of heartache explaining the same thing again and again if you understood a little more about how 3dmark03 works...

btw... lo Dave... I registered @ b3d months ago and have yet to get my confirmation email hence I have to post as a guest... any chance of working out this issue ?
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Old 05-19-03, 09:57 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hanners
Have you ever gone outside those clip planes? If you did, you'd get the corruption you see in 3DMark. Obvious, the applications in question won't let you go outside those planes because of the way the game is coded (as well as the fact that nVidia's drivers aren't cheating in them ).
anything outside of clipping volume gets clipped, you cant have corruption of nothing.
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Old 05-19-03, 09:57 AM   #174
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This thread is just wwwwaaaayy to unbelievable.. Crazy stuff.. My brain hurts.

As for the NDA issue... I dont think B3D is going to have a problem here. The Circumstances pretty obviously waranted such an action on their part. Especially as Trusted a Site as they are by so many companies including Futuremark.
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Old 05-19-03, 09:59 AM   #175
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Quote:
Originally posted by Behemoth
anything outside of clipping volume gets clipped, you cant have corruption of nothing.
Just say that those clip planes were totally fixed though, rather than being dynamically adjusted against where you are viewing the scene from, then what would happen if you moved outside of those planes?
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Old 05-19-03, 10:06 AM   #176
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I can't believe that a few people here can not seem to grasp that Nvidia is cheating in 3dmark2003.

No matter how much you all love Nvidia, there is simply no way to sugarcoat what they have done.

They are deliberately bypassing part of the benchmark to increase their score.

heck they may as well just run the benchmark on a R9800, edit in higher fps and then create a a movie file that would be played whenever the benchmark is run.

The Iq would be the same and the speed would be fantastic since you could edit in whatever you wanted as a score.

You could even call it cinematic rendering since you would be watching a movie.


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Old 05-19-03, 10:06 AM   #177
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hanners
Just say that those clip planes were totally fixed though, rather than being dynamically adjusted against where you are viewing the scene from, then what would happen if you moved outside of those planes?
But they you DON'T move outside the planes because it's a stupid and unrealistic benchmark that doesn't reflect real-world games!!

Besides, nVidia didn't cheat!

(I'm gonna go swap some cards around now...I'm still feeling giddy though! )
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Old 05-19-03, 10:06 AM   #178
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hanners
Just say that those clip planes were totally fixed though, rather than being dynamically adjusted against where you are viewing the scene from, then what would happen if you moved outside of those planes?
that is a point that we have been presenting for the longest time

unfortunately it has conveniently not been addressed in any detail by those that choose to disregard this point...
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Old 05-19-03, 10:07 AM   #179
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sazar
you fail to see the difference or the point of joe's post

I highly recommend doing some indepth research of your own as to what exactly 3dmark03 DOES and perhaps THEN you may see why clipping planes is not acceptable in this benchmark the way nvidia implemented them...

it will save us all a lot of heartache explaining the same thing again and again if you understood a little more about how 3dmark03 works...

btw... lo Dave... I registered @ b3d months ago and have yet to get my confirmation email hence I have to post as a guest... any chance of working out this issue ?
ok i really missed his point. let me just keep the point i raised
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Old 05-19-03, 10:08 AM   #180
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moose
I can't believe that a few people here can not seem to grasp that Nvidia is cheating in 3dmark2003.

No matter how much you all love Nvidia, there is simply no way to sugarcoat what they have done.

They are deliberately bypassing part of the benchmark to increase their score.

heck they may as well just run the benchmark on a R9800, edit in higher fps and then create a a movie file that would be played whenever the benchmark is run.

The Iq would be the same and the speed would be fantastic since you could edit in whatever you wanted as a score.

You could even call it cinematic rendering since you would be watching a movie.


lol... sharp
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