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Old 05-19-03, 06:45 PM   #241
DaveBaumann
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That conclusion is incorrect. The Cat3.2's that Lars used only access 128MB of RAM, which is why the Cat3.4's are out. Taking this into account and the difference between NV30 and NV35 clearly the RAM does make a difference.
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Old 05-19-03, 06:57 PM   #242
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveBaumann
That conclusion is incorrect. The Cat3.2's that Lars used only access 128MB of RAM, which is why the Cat3.4's are out. Taking this into account and the difference between NV30 and NV35 clearly the RAM does make a difference.
what i see is that in 3 web sites.. TOMS/ANads/HAOCP
the Nv35 and the NV30 and other nvidia cards outscore similar ATI cards..
dont you think ATi got a lot of time to optimize for Doom3?
remember that they have 7months!!! of advantage with DIrectx9 cards.

yes ATI drivers will improve more , NVidia too ,the games is FAR from
final ,but we already have signs about this comming.. since the beta demo.

Last edited by Nv40; 05-19-03 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 05-19-03, 06:58 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nv40
now thats better you are accepting the tests are unfair.
who is the next ?

1600x1200 4x+8x AF
radeon9800pro: 17.3
Nv35 : 27.7

THe diferences between medium settings and High is only Aniso filtering.
the only card playable at maximun IQ settings..
near 2x times!!!!!!!!!!!!! R350 performance..
gee I really don't know how i got dragged into this. I wish I didn't let myself. This thread has nothing to do with who is better, Nvidia or Ati. Nor which cards are better. IMHO Ati didn't even really need to be mentioned in this thread at all. The fact that nvidia are cheating in the most popular benchmark there is has absolutely nothing to do with ATi at all.

Anyways... the link I pointed to above was one showing Doom 3 at High Quality settings and at a common resolution of 1024x768 we have...
Radeon9800PRO:- 61.4fps
Geforce FX 5900ULTRA :- 55.0fps

60fps and above is where I like to play my games. I definitely won't settle for 27.7fps. Which at those small numbers btw is not really anywhere near x2 17.3. I could also go on about how the Nvidia card in this comparison will cost atleast $100 more than the ATi offering and that's not available yet. Which also brings up another point of Doom3 not even being available. I'm sure there will be a much nicer card by the time that comes around.

What I would like from you is a link that gives the information that the difference between Medium and High Quality on Doom 3 is ONLY AnisoFiltering. Thankyou.
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Old 05-19-03, 07:03 PM   #244
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nv40
what i see is that in 3 web sites.. TOMS/ANads/HAOCP
the Nv35 and the NV30 and other nvidia cards outscore similar ATI cards..
dont you think ATi got a lot of time to optimize for Doom3?
remember that they have 7months!!! of advantage with DIrectx9 cards.
this is really turning into a different thread. A little tip for you. Doom 3 is OpenGL. Not DirectX9. Let's not even consider the http://www.anandtech.com review at all just yet. There is some serious and obvious mistakes in that review that I don't think have been addressed yet. That should deserve it's own thread anyway.

Why are you so hell bent on protecting Nvidia nv40?
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Old 05-19-03, 07:09 PM   #245
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nv40
what i see is that in 3 web sites.. TOMS/ANads/HAOCP
the Nv35 and the NV30 and other nvidia cards outscore similar ATI cards..
dont you think ATi got a lot of time to optimize for Doom3?
remember that they have 7months!!! of advantage with DIrectx9 cards.
Whats does that have to do with the price of fish? I'm saying Lar's conclusion on the extra 128MB not making a difference in this case is false since he was effectively basing this conclusion off two 128MB cards as the Cat3.2's prevent the extra 128MB of ram being accessed on the 256MB 9800 PRO. The performance difference seen in that case is due to AGP texturing occuring.

FYI, according to ATI they had three days notice of these hitting the web. And, no, they say hadn't optimised for Doom3 as they generally don't do that until closer to a game actually shipping (or them at least being aware a benchmark is coming!) - the fact that the Cat3.4's didn't work with it highlight this.
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Old 05-19-03, 07:14 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ady
this is really turning into a different thread. A little tip for you. Doom 3 is OpenGL. Not DirectX9. Let's not even consider the http://www.anandtech.com review at all just yet. There is some serious and obvious mistakes in that review that I don't think have been addressed yet. That should deserve it's own thread anyway.

Why are you so hell bent on protecting Nvidia nv40?


HEy Ady.. thanks for quoting me..

will you mind to quote the complete message..?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nvidia can claim whatever they want ,and they will be right..
SINCE THEY DONT AGREE WITH THE RULES OF THE COMPETITION ,
THEY DONT HAVE TO PLAY BY ITS RULES. and SINCE THEY ALREADY WARNS EVERYONE THAT THE PERFORMANCE IS NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF NVIDIA CARDS .

So THey can Optimize the way they want.

Nvidia says DONT DO IT , IT IS NOT REAL , but people do it anyway ,
then later the same people blame them ....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

yes i believe in that...
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Old 05-19-03, 07:18 PM   #247
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you're one of the select few m8! anyways... where was that link?
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Old 05-19-03, 07:22 PM   #248
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nv40
HEy Ady.. thanks for quoting me..

will you mind to quote the complete message..?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nvidia can claim whatever they want ,and they will be right..
SINCE THEY DONT AGREE WITH THE RULES OF THE COMPETITION ,
THEY DONT HAVE TO PLAY BY ITS RULES. and SINCE THEY ALREADY WARNS EVERYONE THAT THE PERFORMANCE IS NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF NVIDIA CARDS .

So THey can Optimize the way they want.

Nvidia says DONT DO IT , IT IS NOT REAL , but people do it anyway ,
then later the same people blame them ....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

yes i believe in that...
You said this earlier and I posted my response. I'll post it again:

Quote:
It's not up to nVidia (nor any other IHV) to decide what benches should and should not be used with their cards.

LOL.

Or do you only want benches that show product in the best light or are partial to a certain vendor?? Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of benchmarking in general (3dmark or otherwise).
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Old 05-19-03, 07:25 PM   #249
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveBaumann
Whats does that have to do with the price of fish? I'm saying Lar's conclusion on the extra 128MB not making a difference in this case is false since he was effectively basing this conclusion off two 128MB cards as the Cat3.2's prevent the extra 128MB of ram being accessed on the 256MB 9800 PRO. The performance difference seen in that case is due to AGP texturing occuring.

FYI, according to ATI they had three days notice of these hitting the web. And, no, they say hadn't optimised for Doom3 as they generally don't do that until closer to a game actually shipping (or them at least being aware a benchmark is coming!) - the fact that the Cat3.4's didn't work with it highlight this.
So ,lets give the benefit of the doubt ..to those extra 128 megs..
but if you ask me, i dont believe they will mark any remarkable diference
if Any.. (if i were ATI i would say the same excuses )..

but what about the other ATI cards with no 256megs???
did ATi drivers are ready for 64/128 megs cards?

common DAVE.. you know more than that..
im not saying the battle is over ,ATi can improve their drivers ,i know
but drivers alone will not help ATI in Doom3 ,they will need something
more ,and that its ->hardware.

can you imagine why ATI is releasing another card so soon?
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Old 05-19-03, 07:27 PM   #250
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ady
you're one of the select few m8! anyways... where was that link?
well .. i think this quote summarize well everything..


Quote:
Nvidia can claim whatever they want ,and they will be right.. SINCE THEY DONT AGREE WITH THE RULES OF THE COMPETITION , THEY DONT HAVE TO PLAY BY ITS RULES. and SINCE THEY ALREADY WARNS EVERYONE THAT THE PERFORMANCE IS NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF NVIDIA CARDS . So THey can Optimize the way they want. Nvidia says DONT DO IT , IT IS NOT REAL , but people do it anyway , then later the same people blame them ....
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Old 05-19-03, 07:32 PM   #251
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Oh come on. You can't be serious about that one. can you? I thought you were just joking around. I found it quite funny.
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Last edited by Ady; 05-19-03 at 08:31 PM.
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Old 05-19-03, 07:33 PM   #252
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nv40
So ,lets give the benefit of the doubt ..to those extra 128 megs..
but if you ask me, i dont believe they will mark any remarkable diference
if Any.. (if i were ATI i would say the same excuses )..

but what about the other ATI cards with no 256megs???
did ATi drivers are ready for 64/128 megs cards?

common DAVE.. you know more than that..
im not saying the battle is over ,ATi can improve their drivers ,i know
but drivers alone will not help ATI in Doom3 ,they will need something
more ,and that its ->hardware.

can you imagine why ATI is releasing another card so soon?
Again, I'm talking about the particular benchmark that you are quoting - clearly having access to the full 256MB does make a difference when 4X FSAA is utilised - look at the performance of both Radeon's relative to the 128MB NV30. If those drivers accessed the full 256MB of RAM that test would show a very different performance since the board will not need to resort to AGP texturing which slows down performance considerably. So, yes, in these test conditions drivers that both work with Doom3 and have access to the full 256MB will make a large differnce.
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