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Old 05-21-03, 06:57 PM   #37
Sazar
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Originally posted by Fusion
No, thats called double standards.

Let me ask you something,

Do you believe that a company COULD perfect Hidden Surface Removal algorythms in their drivers ?

If the question was towards ATI, then ATI owners would say yes.

If the question was towards Nvidia, then ATI owners would say no, and add thats it's just PR BS Spin.

Yep, looks like double standards to me.
occlusion culling is a method used both by nvidia and ati in games... ie they are using less workload to deal with materials that are not being shown on screen... hence you get better frame rates for what you CAN see...

however... the situation from a fixed POV as in 3dmark03 where the camera is moving on a track effectively and rendering the same scene time and again... if an IHV decides to clip off a part of the scene... they are reducing the workload that they are SUPPOSED to do in order to have a fair comparison with other cards...

the workload has to be the same in order for a comparison to be made between various cards... this idea is not so difficult to understand...

the entire controversy has arisen due to the fact that the culling apparently reduces the workload that nvidia FX gpus have to do in 3dmark03... hence allowing them to achieve a score which is NOT representative of the real performance in this particular benchmark...

if ati had ventured out and done the same.. they would get it in the neck too.. because for me... as a consumer... it is imperative to have some faith in the company I am handing over my hard earned money to... I place a great deal of value in my purchases... if ati had been involved in this case I would have a lowered standard for them and would actively try out other products...

thats just my opinion though
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Old 05-21-03, 06:59 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fusion
No, thats called double standards.

Let me ask you something,

Do you believe that a company COULD perfect Hidden Surface Removal algorythms in their drivers ?

If the question was towards ATI, then ATI owners would say yes.

If the question was towards Nvidia, then ATI owners would say no, and add thats it's just PR BS Spin.

Yep, looks like double standards to me.
Please DON'T tell me what all ATi owners would say, leave that argument for someone else who is NOT paying attention.
That is a VERY POOR effort if it is supposed to be HSR.
Everyone spouts how great the NV driver team is.
Sorry, but I am NOT seeing it........... especially since most folks here seem to BELIEVE that what is going on is just a bug, if that WERE the case ( and I DON'T believe it is, but I have my own opinion... others may differ) then they have ALOT of work left.
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Old 05-21-03, 07:03 PM   #39
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Not proven yet, we'll see what happens, shall we ? If a new driver set comes out and proves this, then it will shut up a lot of fanboys here (ATI). If not, then it will shut up a lot of fanboys here. (NV)

Do you see ?

the driver set in question is the one we have NOW... what happens in the next driver set is really a question for another day... it has little to do with ati fanboys or nvidia fanboys and everything to do with the integrity of this particular IHV and consumers and what they are receiving...

You call that journalism ? I call it pay back.

yes... kyle did a little pay back didn't he ? ET did nothing more than suggest irregularities... they did not SAY it was a cheat.. neither did b3d... the implication of a cheat was there... admittedly but mainly due to looking @ the pictures in question and also looking @ the technical details... unfortunately there are a few other websites that have editors with apparently less technical knowhow who have decided to take this opportunity to get their own little potshots in... THAT is pay back... IMO

No talk needed. A driver is all that is needed.

isn't there a driver set out already... one that is being questioned for the way it handles certain situations in particular programs ?

No, only the ATI owners. The NVidia owners are waiting for drivers first, talk last.

many nvidia owners here have raised questions themselves... as any consumers and as anyone interested in hardware would do... not so much about fanboyism all the time as consumers bonding together over a common view point...

Looks like you've already made up your narrow mind, no matter what the outcome.

There are always two sides to a fence. I'm sitting on it for now, but you've quite obviously taken one side, while telling yourself that the other side doesn't exist.

it is obvious you also have taken a side and if you can make up your mind what is to stop others from making up their own mind concerning the same matter ? note that fantomas never implied that you had a narrow mind or anything like that however
Yawn,
I'm not going to even bother to read that.

It's like a long playing record, that gets stuck right at the end then suddenly shoots back to the same position, again and again and....................

Oh, and before you bother to reply to this, read what I put again near the end.

Quote:
There are always two sides to a fence. I'm sitting on it for now
Meaning I have a Radeon 9700 in one hand, and a Nv35 in the other.
Get the gist ?
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Old 05-21-03, 07:04 PM   #40
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BTW dble standards?
Why is that, because I PERSONALLY don't believe what YOU believe?
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Old 05-21-03, 07:06 PM   #41
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Please DON'T tell me what all ATi owners would say, leave that argument for someone else who is NOT paying attention.
That is a VERY POOR effort if it is supposed to be HSR.
Everyone spouts how great the NV driver team is.
Sorry, but I am NOT seeing it........... especially since most folks here seem to BELIEVE that what is going on is just a bug, if that WERE the case ( and I DON'T believe it is, but I have my own opinion... others may differ) then they have ALOT of work left.
I don't NEED to tell you, I use my eyes and read whats being posted. It doesn't take an Albert Einstein to work it out for youself.

And that last bit just proves to me about doulble standards. Thanks.
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Old 05-21-03, 07:07 PM   #42
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Whatever man.......
Try speaking english next time.
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Old 05-21-03, 07:16 PM   #43
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Whatever man.......
Try speaking english next time..
Ok, essai "ATI non pro" parlant, la fois prochaine.
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Old 05-21-03, 07:18 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fusion
Ok, essai "ATI non pro" parlant, la fois prochaine.
wouldn't that be la prochaine fois ?

dunno... my francais is a bit off... like 10 yrs lol... since primary

mais je quoi tu parle un peu... eh fusion

damn my grammar and spelling is WAY off lol... ah feck it...
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Old 05-21-03, 07:20 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fusion
Yawn,
I'm not going to even bother to read that.

It's like a long playing record, that gets stuck right at the end then suddenly shoots back to the same position, again and again and....................

Oh, and before you bother to reply to this, read what I put again near the end.



Meaning I have a Radeon 9700 in one hand, and a Nv35 in the other.
Get the gist ?
btw.. yes... I see your total lack of double standards with you not even showing the common courtesy of reading a post

appreciated...
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Old 05-21-03, 07:20 PM   #46
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All I know is all I have to do is look at your previous posts.
Even a blind man could see where you stand..........

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...5&pagenumber=2
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Old 05-22-03, 06:55 AM   #47
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Quote:
All I know is all I have to do is look at your previous posts.
Even a blind man could see where you stand..........
Yep, I'll give you that one. And admit it was a bit childish.

But I was very p1ssed off that day, and looking at the guys giving this guy grief just because he couldn't get the card going, kind of send me off the rail.

Ever worked as a PC engineer ? Well thats my current job. And I know the frustration when a card refuses to work.
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Old 05-22-03, 08:19 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fusion
Yep, I'll give you that one. And admit it was a bit childish.

But I was very p1ssed off that day, and looking at the guys giving this guy grief just because he couldn't get the card going, kind of send me off the rail.

Ever worked as a PC engineer ? Well thats my current job. And I know the frustration when a card refuses to work.
yup... working as one... albeit on a sort of temp basis as I finish off uni

rob had a problem.. and yo... he solved it...
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