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Old 08-29-02, 06:22 AM   #13
sbp
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Stop saying the NV30 will cost more than the R300!
Ok it'll be more expensive. Better?
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Old 08-29-02, 11:20 AM   #14
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Yeah, the 90-95 percent is a definite IF.

But considering Anand is overclocking these things to just under 400Mhz, I think it would be safe to assume that ATi is getting very high yields on the chips. If they were getting low yields, the chips that did make it though would not be overclocking very high.
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Old 08-29-02, 01:56 PM   #15
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Originally posted by ZenOps
Yeah, the 90-95 percent is a definite IF.

But considering Anand is overclocking these things to just under 400Mhz, I think it would be safe to assume that ATi is getting very high yields on the chips. If they were getting low yields, the chips that did make it though would not be overclocking very high.
I read that too, but given that I know very little about the process of making the stupid chips, I can't say if that means all that much wrt yield.
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Old 08-29-02, 03:58 PM   #16
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Considering that ATI will be releasing another .15 micron R300 based chip *before* the NV30 launch, We're aren't going to be seeing lower prices anytime soon. Unless you want to take that 2nd generation of products (Geforce4, R8500)

It's going to be all about $400+ video cards this X-mas, kiddies
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Old 08-30-02, 09:56 AM   #17
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Originally posted by PreservedSwine
Considering that ATI will be releasing another .15 micron R300 based chip *before* the NV30 launch, We're aren't going to be seeing lower prices anytime soon. Unless you want to take that 2nd generation of products (Geforce4, R8500)

It's going to be all about $400+ video cards this X-mas, kiddies
Not really. The new ATI chip will be the Radeon 9500 - it'll be LESS costly than the Radeon 9700. No one knows how much it'll cost, but maximum $300 i'd say.


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Old 08-30-02, 10:18 AM   #18
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Originally posted by Uttar


Not really. The new ATI chip will be the Radeon 9500 - it'll be LESS costly than the Radeon 9700. No one knows how much it'll cost, but maximum $300 i'd say.


Uttar
I should have been more specific

In addition to the R9500, rumours have it there is going to be another R300 based .15 micron chip released before the NV30- basically, a re-freshed R9700.
Quote:
Before its archrival Nvidia introduces its high-end NV30 at the end of this year, ATI will add one 0.15-micron-process R350 chip into its product portfolio, sources said, and later debut its first 0.13-micron, light version of the RV350.
from here http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/Ar...ages=04&seq=25
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Old 08-31-02, 11:19 PM   #19
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Default Re: Stop saying the NV30 will cost more than the R300!

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Originally posted by Uttar
Hello everyone,

I've seen WAY too many people saying "Well, who'd want to pay for the NV30 since it's obviously gonna cost 100 bucks more than the R300 right now and..."

I think someone is forgetting some things here:
1. nVidia is still using a 128 bit bus.
2. 0.13 yields at TSMC will most likely be at around 25% when the NV30 goes in real production. AND, considering the same yields, it isn't more costly at all to do 120 million transistors than 107 million transistors - it's likely even less costly.

So, in my opinion, using a 128 bit bus will most likely compensate for low yields. And if nVidia gets lucky, and gets about 30% yields at TSMC when in real production, they could really begin to have a margin at $399.


Uttar
A yield of 25% doesn't exactly impact nVIDIA. You have to remember that the foundry is bearing the cost of chip production and yield impacts their costs. nVIDIA sets a price for the production on a per chip basis. TSMC funded the cost of the shift to .13m, not nVIDIA.

If what you said was true and yields were that poor, the NV30 would probably be more expensive due to a few factors.

1) Economies of scale won't be achieved at a 25% yield... so chances are it would be more expensive on a per chip basis.

2) If nVIDIA were using that kind of pricing model, I'd assume that TSMC would factor in the costs of the .13 shift into the chips rather than treating it as a sunk cost.

3) Last time I checked, DDRII is a more expensive memory technology. If the NV30 is using it, that is going to drive the price a lot higher than the memory used on the 9700, which is a mature, efficiently manufactured product.

Digitimes is about a reliable as The Inquirer when it comes to speculation. I wouldn't give what they print too much weight unless they are quoting a specific, reputable source with a name that works at the company in question.

Last edited by tazdevl; 08-31-02 at 11:22 PM.
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Old 08-31-02, 11:30 PM   #20
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A yield of 25% doesn't exactly impact nVIDIA. You have to remember that the foundry is bearing the cost of chip production and yield impacts their costs. nVIDIA sets a price for the production on a per chip basis. TSMC funded the cost of the shift to .13m, not nVIDIA.
I am pretty sure that is wrong unless nV has a special realationship with TMSC. TMSC sells them wafers at x amount of cost. If the yeilds are bad and nV proves its TSMC fault then they eat the loss for yeilds. However if not, nV eats the loss. I work for a company that in the top 5 manufactors of silicon ICs and have delt with fab issues before.
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Old 09-03-02, 12:21 PM   #21
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Originally posted by Nv40
The Thing is the Geforce4 already handle ALL avaible GAmes at high quality /max setting in 1600x1200 ,AA+AF 2x.. i play Ghost recon
/medal of honor/Jedignight2 at 1600x1200 with aniso from 2x to 8x(AA off).. and i only have
an atlonXp 1900+...
You might want to double check some of those settings. Most reviews I have seen of the R9700 and Jk2 when they crank all of the setting up, the GF4 scores falls into the 20s (16x12x32 x4 fsaa and x8 aniso). SS:SE is another one.

Look at Anadtechs review and you we see that as good as the GF4 is, it just dose not have the fill rate or MB to keep some of the numbers above the 60 fps cap:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1683&p=18
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1683&p=20
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1683&p=21

So if you want all the eye candy and max IQ, the GF4 dose not haev enough power to do that.


Next,
yeild is roughly defined as the number of parts that pass the probe test done on the wafer (before they are cut and packaged). Usally here they will test each part to see if it meets some spec. Running at some stable clock speed is usally one of those tests. Usally a bigger yeilds imply that the process was not at any edge point and parts often exceed specs in some cases. A poor yeild means that the process may have hit some limit and a lot of parts dont pass the spec. However this is only a general rule of thumb, I have seen it go the other one once or twice.....
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