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Old 05-23-03, 11:09 AM   #73
Nemesis77
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Baron
Gahd. I'm sick of people putting way too much importance on 3DMark. Hope Doom 3 or Half-Life 2 arrives soon so we won't have to base everything on one horribly unreliable benchmark.
So, you have no problems with the fact that NV cheat, even if it is "just" a synthetic benchmark? If they cheat in 3DMark, what makes you so sure that they don't cheat in games as well?
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Old 05-23-03, 11:10 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Baron
Gahd. I'm sick of people putting way too much importance on 3DMark. Hope Doom 3 or Half-Life 2 arrives soon so we won't have to base everything on one horribly unreliable benchmark.
Yes, lets base everything on two very specific games which are equally unreliable in gauging overall gaming performance.
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Old 05-23-03, 11:11 AM   #75
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So, you have no problems with the fact that NV cheat, even if it is "just" a synthetic benchmark? If they cheat in 3DMark, what makes you so sure that they don't cheat in games as well?
If NVIDIA cheats in games, and I can't see that it's a cheat EVER, then it's not a cheat--it's an optimization.
 
Old 05-23-03, 11:12 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joe DeFuria

What we have learned from this incident, is that FutureMark will NOT TOLERATE cheating. They will expose it, no matter who does it. It does exactly the opposite of what you are saying. This make 3DMark all the more trustworthy, because they will actively take measures against cheating.


The 42.68 driver set doesn't draw GT1 properly and gives an inflated score. Futuremark stopped 42.6x drivers being able to publish for a while but now you can submit again, even though they still do not draw all the bangs and flashes.

So your statement does not hold up against the facts.

Regards

Andy
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Old 05-23-03, 11:13 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Baron
Gahd. I'm sick of people putting way too much importance on 3DMark. Hope Doom 3 or Half-Life 2 arrives soon so we won't have to base everything on one horribly unreliable benchmark.
Doom3 will be even worse to benchmark on since ther are so many different codepaths it can choose.

HL2 may be a bit better but who is going to watch for the cheating????

I certainly don't trust the videocard companies after this, especially Nvidia.

24% is a huge difference!!!
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Old 05-23-03, 11:14 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by zakelwe
The 42.68 driver set doesn't draw GT1 properly and gives an inflated score. Futuremark stopped 42.6x drivers being able to publish for a while but now you can submit again, even though they still do not draw all the bangs and flashes.

So your statement does not hold up against the facts.

Regards

Andy
Scores submitted by users and those shown in reviews are two very different things.

I don't suppose OEMs choose who to make their contracts with by looking throught the Orb.

Besides which, none of those rendering errors will occur any more with the latest patch, as this has effectively 'disabled' all cheats.
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Old 05-23-03, 11:14 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Baron
Gahd. I'm sick of people putting way too much importance on 3DMark. Hope Doom 3 or Half-Life 2 arrives soon so we won't have to base everything on one horribly unreliable benchmark.
Why? Most likely there will be plenty of cheating in the timedemos...Heh, Nvidia already tried to pass of their own homemade demo to iD.

The only thing that won't invalidate those benchmarks is if web reviewers make their own demos. Often..
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Old 05-23-03, 11:15 AM   #80
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Originally posted by The Baron If NVIDIA cheats in games, and I can't see that it's a cheat EVER, then it's not a cheat--it's an optimization.
Damn, there really are some REALLY blinded and biased nvidiots here...

Fact is, this incident has shown that NV cannot be trusted. Remember how much flack Ati took over the Quack-issue (although they fixed it with no loss in performance or in image-quality)? Now we have somethign similar happen to NV, people actually defend them! Damn, that's some really powerful brainwashing I must say! You do know that these cheats can be used in game-benchmarks as well, inflating their scores. But the FPS in actualy gameplay can be alot less.

But hey, if NV does it, then it's OK!
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Old 05-23-03, 11:15 AM   #81
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wow... this is huge news. to say nvidia upset me is an understatement. i agree on 3dmark shouldnt be used to justify the speed in games... and im happy with the game speed on my system... but this is just wrong. fooling people to believe their product is something it isnt is simply wrong. i would call myself an nvidiot... i love nvidia... but this.. this is just wrong.

btw, as soon as i get home today, i will test with the patch. check the score in my sig for the unpatched score... i will show the differences as soon as i get home... (a few hours)
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Old 05-23-03, 11:16 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally posted by tertsi
Copy from Futuremark's report:

Our investigations reveal that some drivers from ATI also produce a slightly lower total score on this new build of 3DMark03. The drop in performance on the same test system with a Radeon 9800 Pro using the Catalyst 3.4 drivers is 1.9%. This performance drop is almost entirely due to 8.2% difference in the game test 4 result, which means that the test was also detected and somehow altered by the ATI drivers. We are currently investigating this further.

Busted!

Quote:
This performance drop is almost entirely due to 8.2% difference in the game test 4 result, which means that the test was also detected and somehow altered by the ATI drivers
individual scores are not reliable either.. already websites use individual
sores as a measure..

Mmmm.. how can this be ? ATI is cheating too
now who is inflating scores here ?

at least Nvidia have the excuse ,they never Sponsor FUturemark as a
reliable benchmark.NVidia [WARNs WEBSITES and USER to not TRUST in the scores in this program] its easy to inflate score there too..
ATI knows it.. ,WHo is Member can cheat better ,without being detected

for me the only test that really matter is GAMES. if my card do well
there ,the my card is ok

Last edited by Nv40; 05-23-03 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 05-23-03, 11:17 AM   #83
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WEh00000 I"m on the rollercoaster of denial.....aaahhhhaoooo..

It's obvious that NVidia has finally been exposed and now we all know (nvidiots included) what the company will do to remain competitive. Not releasing good hardware, but releasing SUp0r H4x3d drivers to maintain that competition. Its a sad set of circumstances.
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Old 05-23-03, 11:18 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nv40
Mmmm.. how can this be ? ATI is cheating too
now who is inflating scores here ?
And you too focus solely on Ati, and completely ignore the HUGE cheat by NV. You just have really big problem accepting the facts huh?
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