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Old 05-23-03, 10:53 PM   #61
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yea i know... thats why it confuses me... it may be because carmack may have added some extra code or something... i dunno... or maybe nvidia optimized for the doom3 alpha too!! hehe
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Old 05-23-03, 11:04 PM   #62
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Actually I was wrong Jakup, but my point still stands. Actually it is the ARB2 path that the nv30 is slow at, not the ARB path. The ARB path is a lower quality standard path. It is missing features such as specular highlights and vertex programs. The ARB2 path still uses standard extensions but it is high quality. No features have been cut out like the ARB path.

Whether or not the NV30 was out at the time, the Nv30 path is in the leaked alpha.
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Old 05-23-03, 11:11 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Baron
Not for a benchmark it doesn't.

If you replace a part of a benchmark with your own creation in order to improve your scores for the benchmark, no matter how crappily the benchmark is coded for whatever architecture you're using, you're corrupting the benchmark. Plain and simple.

For a game? Sure. I'm ALL FOR IT. But for a benchmark? No. Otherwise, you'd have to be dependent on a driver team to optimize for every game on the planet in order to get similar performance.
This is exactly why I have stated why you cannot trust a synthetic benchmark for accurate determination of performance, It's supposed to be Generic, And it's obviously not.

Whether or not these optimisations are "cheating" or not, I could really care less,

In Both cases, The optimisations requiire specific coding for the specific aplication in this case,
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Old 05-23-03, 11:19 PM   #64
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Quote:
3dmark2003 barely use PS2.0/VS2.0 as much as 5%?
The Entire skybox is PS2.0 as is the water -- by my reckoning virtually every pixel would have been touched by a PS2.0 shader at least once per frame!!

FYI, if anyone's interested I've got some zoomed shots looking at the precision under the two versions of 3DMark on both an NV35 and R350:

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6042
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Old 05-23-03, 11:30 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by indio
I guess 3dmark don't matter to hardcore gamers
Thatís no surprise. Hardcore gamers donít waste time with time demos. They use that time to play real games instead.
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Old 05-23-03, 11:32 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by vampireuk
What they should do is put all this behind them and work their arses off for the NV40 and prove to everyone that they can still come up with the goods. And also drop all this marketing stuff
What's wrong with NV35 line I ask?
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Old 05-23-03, 11:35 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by CaptNKILL
OK, we'll have to talk again when the full game comes out. I know ATI will double their FPS to beat Nvidia when the full version of Doom 3 is released.

Of course just like they did with Quake3...
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Old 05-23-03, 11:36 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveBaumann
The Entire skybox is PS2.0 as is the water -- by my reckoning virtually every pixel would have been touched by a PS2.0 shader at least once per frame!!

FYI, if anyone's interested I've got some zoomed shots looking at the precision under the two versions of 3DMark on both an NV35 and R350:

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6042
Thanks for the visuals Dave, now GO TO SLEEP! No more redbulls, you can expose wrong-doing on nVidia's behalf in the morning.
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Old 05-23-03, 11:41 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveBaumann
The Entire skybox is PS2.0 as is the water -- by my reckoning virtually every pixel would have been touched by a PS2.0 shader at least once per frame!!

FYI, if anyone's interested I've got some zoomed shots looking at the precision under the two versions of 3DMark on both an NV35 and R350:

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6042
I have heard the "3d mark barely uses ps2.0" comment come out of wayyy too many people's mouths here.
Thanks for that blurp Dave....
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Old 05-23-03, 11:44 PM   #70
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Dave Baumann--a voice of reason in an otherwise COMPLETELY INSANE world. Thanks for actually providing that tasty little thing we call evidence.
 
Old 05-24-03, 01:54 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by Typedef Enum
That response from ATI is _exactly_ why I perveive ATI to be in a leadership role today, rather than nVidia...

Taking immediate action and/or responsibility (and I cannot emphasive that word enough) is the absolute _correct_ way of handling these types of situations, not the utter BS that was stated by the nVidia employee.
Amen to that.
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Old 05-24-03, 07:33 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nv40
the reason ATI perform so well and
NVidia not is because 3dmak2003 = (is the selection of ati best test in 3dmark2001)
Ps1.4/SIngle texturing/ ridiculous use of VS.. where ATi hardware
feels at home.. but at the same time lack of MUltitexturing test /and PS1.x
were ATI cards generally slower..
I don't understand why people still go on about using Pixel Shader 1.4 in 3DMark being unfair, considering that the NV3x supports it.

Also, single-texturing is the way forward, and what we'll be seeing almost exclusively from now on in games.

And finally, what's so ridiculous about the usage of Vertex Shaders in 3DMark?
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