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Old 05-24-03, 11:18 AM   #49
Sazar
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Quote:
Originally posted by vampireuk
I think after this fiasco it will end soon, I wouldn't be suprised if some heads are rolling over all this The last few times they have been caught it seems not much happened. This time around there has been a huge amount of coverage on this. I'm personally hoping they pull their damn pants back up and get back in the game
here's to hoping m8



but I can't really imagine whats going on..

most publicity is good.. this is not because ati has been getting a lot of POSITIVE feedback even in light of their statement concerning 3dmark03... while @ the same time nvidia has been geting the short end of the stick... if it was only nvidia getting publicity it would not hurt as bad but with ati getting free press... hell yah its not good for nvidia...

btw indio... there will likely be additional expenses to the $400million invested into the nv3x lineup (or FX gpu's) to make changes... I can't for the life of me see nvidia going ahead with more gpu's with broken pixel and vertex shaders... and not expecting to keep falling behind in terms of nextgen tech...
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Old 05-24-03, 11:25 AM   #50
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Originally posted by vampireuk
I don't know what your deal is with NVIDIA now digi but you can't really expect NVIDIA to just die off. Like I said earlier they have screwed up so badly over this, lets all of us hope that they drop the PR stuff and get back to the actual products.
I'm pissed at nVidia vamp, they leaned on me homies to try and get me in trouble and made it all personal to me. I'm hoping they get every bit of bad karma back that they've been spewing forth over the years.

It's just a bit of a pissed-of-vengeance thing with some righteous enjoyment of their suffering tossed in for fun, along with some written "salt-in-the-wounds" type stuff to make sure it hurts 'em.

Besides, I think they're wrong as hell here and need the wake-up call.

Quote:
Originally posted by vampireuk
I think after this fiasco it will end soon, I wouldn't be suprised if some heads are rolling over all this The last few times they have been caught it seems not much happened. This time around there has been a huge amount of coverage on this. I'm personally hoping they pull their damn pants back up and get back in the game
I do too Vamp, I do too...but they ain't going to if they keep denying reality and insulting their customer base!

I really hope they wake up too, but I ain't counting on it. How-Hung is just too full of hubris to allow that.
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Old 05-24-03, 11:43 AM   #51
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I am pretty sure Nvidia had some bean counters on this waybefore the release of the nv30. And aparently they found that cheating would be worth it. They didn't just decide to cheat on a whim... I am pretty sure about that.

So the question is.... did they think it was worth the risk of getting caught? Or did they expect to get caught and think that cheating would still be worth it even if they did?


I mean... seriously, I don't believe Nvidia would be stupid enough to think that they would get away with these kinds of optimizations without being caught... come on. Everyone with a NV3x that was a beta member if FM would probably discover this.
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Old 05-24-03, 12:00 PM   #52
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i think they they felt that if they were caught, they could just throw it out the window and say "well we arent a futuremark beta partner, so its all bugs"

i mean, they really had no option but to cheat. their nv30 wasnt up to snuff in 3dmark03... they for sure arent gonna claim a card is the greatest that ever lived, delay it for 5 months, then bring it out, and it gets defeated by the #1 benchmark that people use to judge systems... it just looks really, really, really bad. how much you wanna bet that part of the reason it was delayed so much is because of the driver team?

remember, huang said he didnt want the nv30 to ship until it could compete with the r300.... since they had no option left, they overclocked the hell out of it, and cheated in 3dmark03.
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Old 05-24-03, 06:09 PM   #53
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Quote:
So the question is.... did they think it was worth the risk of getting caught? Or did they expect to get caught and think that cheating would still be worth it even if they did?
Anytime you cheat, you know there is a possibility of being caught. Nvidia new the possibility was there. They also know that with their popularity they will still have many supporters no matter what they get caught cheating at. Just look around at the number of people rushing to defend them for this. The number one excuse I see is "it's just 3dmark". Unfortunately I feel a lot of those same people will still defend them even if it gets shown they cheat in game benchmarks too.

It's all a matter of them weighing the options and picking the choice they see most fit. I personally think they made the wrong choice, but only time will tell.
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Old 05-24-03, 06:18 PM   #54
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I'm pissed at nVidia vamp, they leaned on me homies to try and get me in trouble and made it all personal to me.

You can't seriously take this personally. It's just a benchmark, I can understand you not liking what they did, But its still just a benchmark.
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Old 05-24-03, 07:04 PM   #55
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Originally posted by ChrisRay
You can't seriously take this personally. It's just a benchmark, I can understand you not liking what they did, But its still just a benchmark.
No, nVidia got in contact with me boss at EliteBastards about an e-mail I wrote him and some things I'd been saying about nVidia on the web. It caused some consternation and it ended up with me leaving staff at EliteBastards so nVidia can't try and get to me thru my friends again.

I don't take the benchmark bit personal....but the strong-arm, behind the scene tactics I DO take personally when it involves my friends.

So yeah, I am enjoying this. I'm enjoying this immensly and plan to continue doing so.
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Old 05-24-03, 07:24 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
No, nVidia got in contact with me boss at EliteBastards about an e-mail I wrote him and some things I'd been saying about nVidia on the web. It caused some consternation and it ended up with me leaving staff at EliteBastards so nVidia can't try and get to me thru my friends again.
So much for free speech - nVidia is US based yeah? What about the First Ammendment that gets brought up so much in moral issues, doesn't that apply here? surely you have the right to point out when nvidia are being totally wank..

I think you did the right thing leavin EB tho, you're a free Agent now, untouchable (over-dramatic, but true lol) .. this all falls apart if you happen to like being touched tho

Quote:
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
So yeah, I am enjoying this. I'm enjoying this immensly and plan to continue doing so.
Good for you

ChrisRay: I thought your summary of the DX standards situation was excellent

I'm a little worried by the implications of your closing comments, about OGL not being standardised..

Carmack must have a spent a significant amount of time creating the nV30 path.. surely we don't want Dev's having to create such different paths for each IHV (well, for nvidia it seems) just because they insist on doing things differently to the otherwise agreed norm..?

It'll be interesting to see what's happened to STALKER since nVidia took control, and how shader support pans out on the R3x0..

Likewise with the FULL version of Doom3, and what differences (if any) exist between the nV30 and ARB2 paths.

But that's waaaaay in the future
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Old 05-24-03, 08:11 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by Onde Pik
I am pretty sure Nvidia had some bean counters on this waybefore the release of the nv30. And aparently they found that cheating would be worth it. They didn't just decide to cheat on a whim... I am pretty sure about that.
Yes, but I am pretty sure that if the NV3x didn't fall flat on its face in 3dmark03 they wouldn't have cheated in it. It wouldn't have been worth it.
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Old 05-24-03, 08:12 PM   #58
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Originally posted by euan
BTW the mimimum entry fee to the Futuremark hardware beta program is $5000/yr.
As I pointed out somewhere else nvidia was a Strategic Beta member. The highest member in the program, along with some other companies.

Surely it doesn't cost only $5000 for that status. We don't know how much nvidia was paying.
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Old 05-24-03, 08:53 PM   #59
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an interesting discussion with diferents points of view
about what we know .

http://www.guru3d.com/forum/showthre...threadid=54736
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Old 05-24-03, 09:13 PM   #60
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Originally posted by Nv40
an interesting discussion with diferents points of view
about what we know .

http://www.guru3d.com/forum/showthre...threadid=54736
Pagh, just because the fanboys outweigh the more common sense and logical type doesn't necessarily make it more true.

The big argument there again seems to boil down to "3dm2k3 isn't a good game bench", which it ain't really supposed to be anyways.

Thanks for pointing out another fun place to play though, it's been a while since I posted at Guru3D...I kind of forgot about 'em.
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