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Old 05-24-03, 04:15 PM   #1
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Default Splinter Cell: there might be another.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6038

Beyond3D is currently looking into the Splinter Cell benchmark that they (B3D) created.

To cut to the chase, there's a sequence where a Pixel shader is supposed to be applied to the ocean surface...and interestingly enough, this doesn't seem to be happening all the time with the 5900.

Furthermore, the thing that's fueling the speculation at this point...beyond the fact that we now know that nVidia is a proven benchmark cheater...is the fact that they have been tipped off that an nVidia engineer's main mission in life was to focus on Splinter Cell benchmarking.

I strongly believe this is only the beginning.
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Old 05-24-03, 04:19 PM   #2
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Please ask DaveB and Rev to take screenshots, like the one DaveB did for GT4. This will help show clearly whats happening.
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Old 05-24-03, 06:23 PM   #3
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Well, with driver 43.51 there are also missing some sun/flares /beams sometimes, but I don't know if its a cheat.
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Old 05-24-03, 06:33 PM   #4
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hmmm... this might just be a driver bug since he did say that the water effect appeared on the 5200
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Old 05-24-03, 08:34 PM   #5
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It could very well be that such an "optimization" was pointless on the 5200.
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Old 05-24-03, 08:38 PM   #6
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I think it's premature to try to bring this to light. Since it occurs only on the gfFX5900 and gfFX5600, but not the gfFX5200, it might be cheating.

But B3D is not ready to come to such a conclusion without more testing. So you shouldn't jump to conclusions yet either.

Although it is interesting that Splinter Cell benchmarks jumped up with recent drivers, as did Shadermark results...I honestly wouldn't be surprised if nvidia was cheating.

P.S. I haven't read the thread today, just last night, so there may be new developments I missed. If so, just disregard my comments.
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Old 05-24-03, 09:00 PM   #7
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Even thoughnVidia cheated in 3Dm03, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on yet another cheat. Would this bug/cheat affect the benchmark, or the game as well?

I'll reserve any judgment till all the facts are in....
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Old 05-25-03, 06:15 AM   #8
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Last i saw was that the GeForce FX range didn't render any special effects in Splinter cell, even the GeForce 4 Range rendered them. But perhaps thats been fixed but i havn't heard anyone say that it has? It's funny really as i though the game was based around the GeForce FX.
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Old 05-25-03, 06:29 AM   #9
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The shaders being rendered are DirectX 8 Shaders, Which is nothing remarkable.The Geforce FX has no problem with 1.1 Pixel Shaders.

I think they have jumped the gun on this. Where a bug is present. I really doubt this is a cheat.


The geforce FX handles DirectX 8.0 shaders fine. Heck Nvidia helped microsoft design the DX 8.0 Shader standards


In Regards to them focusing on this engine. I believe its important. As this engine is performing rather underwhelming on both ATI AND Nvidia cards right now
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Old 05-25-03, 06:41 AM   #10
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I wouldn't really say that as frame rates don't need to be as high for this game. Also saying cards an't perfoming verywell is an understatement, the Radeon 9600Pro is considerbly faster then a Radeon 9500Pro.
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Old 05-25-03, 08:02 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dazz
I wouldn't really say that as frame rates don't need to be as high for this game. Also saying cards an't perfoming verywell is an understatement, the Radeon 9600Pro is considerbly faster then a Radeon 9500Pro.

I'm still trying to figure the 9600 thing out with this game. I can only assume this game benefits from higher bandwith rather than higher fill rate, And this game is not pushing fill rate at all.

Since you can't do any Anti Aliasing in this game currently. There's no real way to test that theory
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Old 05-25-03, 08:49 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisRay
The shaders being rendered are DirectX 8 Shaders, Which is nothing remarkable.The Geforce FX has no problem with 1.1 Pixel Shaders.

I think they have jumped the gun on this. Where a bug is present. I really doubt this is a cheat.

The geforce FX handles DirectX 8.0 shaders fine. Heck Nvidia helped microsoft design the DX 8.0 Shader standards
We've not actually stated anything, other than it looks odd. And, yes, you are correct - the FX should be fine with PS1.1, which is why I find it odd that this issue should occur in the first place. Its even odder that it occurs on some parts of the same architecture but not others.

Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisRay
I'm still trying to figure the 9600 thing out with this game. I can only assume this game benefits from higher bandwith rather than higher fill rate, And this game is not pushing fill rate at all.
I thinks its evident that the R300 ASIC that 9500 uses had some issues with PS1.1:

http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/ati/r350/index.php?p=15

Both R350 and RV350 cleaned these issues up, and the difference in performance with SC is just a real world example of that.
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