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Old 12-14-08, 11:25 AM   #13
evanh
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Default Re: VDPAU deinterlacing framerate

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How is pulldown done where framerate might actually change? Like 60i->24p or 50i to 25p?
Pulldown is for lower framerate sources to be displayed on higher framerate displays. So it allows 24Hz films to be displayed on the 50/60Hz PAL/NTSC displays. The simplest example is PAL conversions that assume the 24Hz is 25Hz and splits a single frame cleanly across two fields to make a single progressively generated image. Similar to progressive JPEGs but limited to analogue scanlining instead of the more complex 2D progressive used in JPEGs.
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Old 12-14-08, 11:58 AM   #14
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Default Re: VDPAU deinterlacing framerate

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Pulldown is for lower framerate sources to be displayed on higher framerate displays. So it allows 24Hz films to be displayed on the 50/60Hz PAL/NTSC displays. The simplest example is PAL conversions that assume the 24Hz is 25Hz and splits a single frame cleanly across two fields to make a single progressively generated image. Similar to progressive JPEGs but limited to analogue scanlining instead of the more complex 2D progressive used in JPEGs.
Yes, I know that. Hence vdpau does the reversed pulldown. So make 25p out of 50i (50i encoded, but actually 25p image).
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Old 12-14-08, 07:24 PM   #15
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Default Re: VDPAU deinterlacing framerate

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Yes, I know that. Hence vdpau does the reversed pulldown. So make 25p out of 50i (50i encoded, but actually 25p image)
Ah, ok. Not sure what your question is then. There is no further massaging needed once it's in the 50i progressive form that displays cleanly on any system.
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Old 12-15-08, 12:58 AM   #16
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Default Re: VDPAU deinterlacing framerate

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Ah, ok. Not sure what your question is then. There is no further massaging needed once it's in the 50i progressive form that displays cleanly on any system.
Actually this depends. If a 2:2 pulldown was applied it would be ok to just show every progressive frame twice, yes.
But if a 3:2 pulldown was applied on film-material the framerate should be 24fps in the end, as it would reconstruct the original film image. For this case actually even new timestamps would need to be created. At least I don't see another way to handle it.
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Old 12-15-08, 11:56 AM   #17
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Default Re: VDPAU deinterlacing framerate

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Ah, thanks for that clarification.
So we would call VideoMixerRender the first time when the top field is rendered into the surface and then again when the bottom surface is rendered into the surface?

How is pulldown done where framerate might actually change? Like 60i->24p or 50i to 25p?
You probably wouldn't call VdpMixerRender right after the decode of each field. If you do that, then you won't have any future frames available for the mixer, and the advanced de-interlacing algorithms won't have enough information to operate correctly.

However, yes, there will be 1 VdpMixerRender call per VdpDecoderRender. It's just that the Mixer calls will lag behind the decoder calls by at least one field.

Re: frame-rate conversion: VDPAU only support converting N Hz interlace -> N Hz progressive. Whilst doing this, it will correctly detect any telecine any use the appropriate fields to generate each output frame (i.e. not combined fields from unrelated frames). However, it doesn't then give you that native frame rate stream back. Instead, it will give you a stream of frames with some repeats in order to maintain the original field rate as a frame rate.
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Old 12-31-08, 08:49 AM   #18
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Default Re: VDPAU deinterlacing framerate

Is temporal and temporal_spatial deinterlacing expected to work up to 1080p even on lowend chipsets? - Like the 8400GS series or IGP9300 chipsets?
We have heavy frame-dropping with these on xine-vdpau (doing 50i->50p deinterlacing)

How's the experience with mythtv here?
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Old 01-05-09, 01:35 PM   #19
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Default Re: VDPAU deinterlacing framerate

No, low-end chips (depending on exactly which ones) probably won't be able to do that.
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Old 01-05-09, 02:13 PM   #20
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Default Re: VDPAU deinterlacing framerate

Thanks, we assumed that in the meantime. For my IGP9300 test system I had to replace the main memory to be able to get Temporal on HD content work.

One more question:
Am I correct assuming that when VDP_VIDEO_MIXER_FEATURE_INVERSE_TELECINE is enabled VDPAU will (before applying deinterlace algorithms) try to detect an applied 2:2 or 3:2 pulldown and recreate the original progressive frames? - So if pulldown was detected no deinterlacing algorithm will be applied afterwards?

Thanks
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Old 01-05-09, 03:09 PM   #21
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Default Re: VDPAU deinterlacing framerate

I believe that's the purpose of the inverse telecine algorithm, yes.
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Old 01-12-09, 10:05 AM   #22
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Default Re: VDPAU deinterlacing framerate

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Is temporal and temporal_spatial deinterlacing expected to work up to 1080p even on lowend chipsets? - Like the 8400GS series or IGP9300 chipsets?
We have heavy frame-dropping with these on xine-vdpau (doing 50i->50p deinterlacing)
No, low-end chips (depending on exactly which ones) probably won't be able to do that.
What chips will be able to do Temporal and Temporal_Spatial Deinterlacing at 1080p? What is considered "low-end chips"? And do there exist any chips that can decode VC-1 and do T/TS Deinterlacing (since the only chips that can do VC-1 decoding are 8400/9300, which are low-end from the above comment)?

I'm planning to buy a new video card to do HW decoding of BluRay movies and I suppose some BluRays are still only 1080i, so deinterlacing would be very relevant, since I assume the nVidia chip might be able to do a better job than my TV (Samsung M86).

Thanks in advance.
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Old 01-12-09, 05:07 PM   #23
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Default Re: VDPAU deinterlacing framerate

Temporal and temporal/spatial de-interlacing requires more GPU horse power than the low-end GPUs have, so based on measured performance you may want to fallback to bob if the mixer isn't keeping up.

I can't really make product recommendations. Currently, the newer video engine that VDPAU supports for VC-1 is mostly in lower-end GPUs, so I don't know if there is a VDPAU-supported product that does all that you're asking for, yet.
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Old 01-13-09, 02:35 AM   #24
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Default Re: VDPAU deinterlacing framerate

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Temporal and temporal/spatial de-interlacing requires more GPU horse power than the low-end GPUs have, so based on measured performance you may want to fallback to bob if the mixer isn't keeping up.

I can't really make product recommendations. Currently, the newer video engine that VDPAU supports for VC-1 is mostly in lower-end GPUs, so I don't know if there is a VDPAU-supported product that does all that you're asking for, yet.
Thank you for your answer, Stephen.

I will wait and see what the future brings.
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