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Old 05-27-03, 03:18 PM   #13
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Looks like Volt is on a roll now. It seems the goal is to use quotes from nVidia fanboys around the net to make ATI look bad and make nVidia actually look good for cheating. Using a qoute that praises nVidia for cheating 'the right way'....
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Old 05-27-03, 03:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Monolyth
Thus far this post has remained pretty calm, I think were all a little fed up with companies (both nVidia and ATI) doing this kind of crap. We pay good money for the products they make, only to hear that the company we just bought it from has been cheating on the drivers for it...

Whatever happened to companies with some simple common sense and integrity? *Sigh* Sorry, I'm just a little miffed at both companies for doing things without even telling anyone. How about we start seeing some detailed changelogs? Sooo many "software" developers release detailed changelogs that make your changelogs look like "Go Dog Go". Any sensible developer releases changelogs even if it is internal only, I would certainly think companies as large as ATI and Nvidia would have such documents.

PS - ATI has been releasing psuedo-changelogs with their latest CAT drivers, I have yet to see even a pseudo-changelog from nVidia.
That is because all the flame posts will either be deleted or moved to this forum, where nobody reads the posts.
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Old 05-27-03, 03:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisW
Looks like Volt is on a roll now. It seems the goal is to use quotes from nVidia fanboys around the net to make ATI look bad and make nVidia actually look good for cheating. Using a qoute that praises nVidia for cheating 'the right way'....
For the bigger part of it you should not blame FutureMark for this though, but blame the parties that started cheating.
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[b]Optimization guidelines by Koji Ashida of NVIDIA:[/b][list][*]Use fx12 instructions whenever possible[*]Use lowest pixel shader version[/list][url=http://developer.nvidia.com/docs/IO/10878/ChinaJoy2004_OptimizationAndTools.pdf]source[/url]

[size=1]The politics are invading the technology. We don't really like to mess with politics because that kind of adversarial relationship has nothing to do with pure technical operations and the technical specifications of what we like to play with, the hardware![/size]
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Old 05-27-03, 03:23 PM   #16
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Speaking of history, I'm sure everyone remembers the Quake 3 / Quack 3 optimizations that ATI did, of course that was back in the 8500 days.

And volt for god sakes your only fanning the flames in here, if you really want to start a cool flame war atleast make it about something that we all care about...like...laffy taffy or something. Atleast you can eat that, cause thus far I can't swallow all the Anti-ATI crap going around, when nVidia was the one that truly cheated. ATI had zero...ZERO "3DMark2K3 specific" code, so don't try to sell me on the point that ATI "cheated", I had been a serious fanboy of nVidia and AMD for a long time, now that I'm running ATI and Intel, I will tell you it's stupid choosing sides.
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Old 05-27-03, 03:25 PM   #17
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No-one blames Futuremark! At least i blame you for handling things wrong and playing in a childish way with a well-established news page!
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Old 05-27-03, 03:41 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by volt
For the bigger part of it you should not blame FutureMark for this though, but blame the parties that started cheating.
Why would I blame Futuremark? They are the people that has a major graphics card company (nVidia) trying to destroy their product. I feel sorry for those guys. How would you like it is some company launched a strategic campaign or misinformation and propaganda to try to destroy your company just because they would not optimize for them?
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Old 05-27-03, 03:46 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by PreservedSwine
That's correct, ATI has been quite frank and open. They certainly never admitted to cheating, did they?

Is it cheating? Largely, that depends on the definition of cheating....My point is exactly that- print the news. Some will see it as "cheating" and some will see it as "optimizing." Leaving that distinction up to the reader is the responsible thing to do.
As I pointed out...the x-bit article says that "ATI admitted they cheated" or something like that. Volt was posting about the x-bit article, and he used the same words as they did.

Is that wrong? No. Is it irresponsible? Yes. Certainly I think x-bit is misrepresenting the news. But I think Volt is accurately representing x-bit's news.

The question is, "was this the right thing to do in this situation?" That is what the debate is about.
 
Old 05-27-03, 03:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by StealthHawk
As I pointed out...the x-bit article says that "ATI admitted they cheated" or something like that. Volt was posting about the x-bit article, and he used the same words as they did.

Is that wrong? No. Is it irresponsible? Yes. Certainly I think x-bit is misrepresenting the news. But I think Volt is accurately representing x-bit's news.

The question is, "was this the right thing to do in this situation?" That is what the debate is about.
the debate is about the extra wording volt included in the news post...

specifically

Quote:
Ahh, the moment I was waiting for *sarcastic laughter*. Looks like ATI admitted they "optimized" their drivers to achive higher scores in 3DMark03 *wink wink*
and

Quote:
Yea right, I find that hard to believe somehow
volt did accurately represent the news but his additional text is what was raised as perhaps not being required...
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Old 05-27-03, 03:53 PM   #21
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As far as the Guru3D post...all i got to say:

<inappropriate>

Working on ATI at the moment to be fair.
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Old 05-27-03, 03:54 PM   #22
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This is why I don't post news anymore. The moment you post anything vaguely interesting you get spammed with criticism.

Let volt have his opinion, nobody says you have to agree with it, and nobody says a news posting without opinion has to be agreeable to everyone (there is no such thing).

News without any sort of opinion or comment from the poster is just boring to read, like its written by a google search engine.
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Old 05-27-03, 03:58 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveW
This is why I don't post news anymore. The moment you post anything vaguely interesting you get spammed with criticism.

Let volt have his opinion, nobody says you have to agree with it, and nobody says a news posting without opinion has to be agreeable to everyone (there is no such thing).

News without any sort of opinion or comment from the poster is just boring to read, like its written by a google search engine.
I think thats what Pswine was stating though... feel free to post one's opinions with the article concerned.. but do so in a column or some other section... news is basically for the reader to read...

w/o the extra parts volt put out there... this discussion would not be about volt... which unfortunately it has become... but rather about the article itself..

btw posting news is fun it is something I enjoy doing (not on a fulltime basis though) and any criticism received (if warranted) ... well I just have to learn from it and move on...
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Old 05-27-03, 04:01 PM   #24
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whoops - Edited
Were you refering to nV and because they were caught doing a few things wrong? I would suggest you hide all your traces to your computer, just in case nV come in with their address snifers followed by a whole lotta lawyers.
Please ppl calm down.

Nevermind- Pic has been taken down
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