Splinter Cell: there might be another.

Typedef Enum · 05-24-03, 03:15 PM

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6038

Beyond3D is currently looking into the Splinter Cell benchmark that they (B3D) created.

To cut to the chase, there's a sequence where a Pixel shader is supposed to be applied to the ocean surface...and interestingly enough, this doesn't seem to be happening all the time with the 5900.

Furthermore, the thing that's fueling the speculation at this point...beyond the fact that we now know that nVidia is a proven benchmark cheater...is the fact that they have been tipped off that an nVidia engineer's main mission in life was to focus on Splinter Cell benchmarking.

I strongly believe this is only the beginning.

DSC · 05-24-03, 03:19 PM

Please ask DaveB and Rev to take screenshots, like the one DaveB did for GT4. This will help show clearly whats happening.

Skinner · 05-24-03, 05:23 PM

Well, with driver 43.51 there are also missing some sun/flares /beams sometimes, but I don't know if its a cheat.

jAkUp · 05-24-03, 05:33 PM

hmmm... this might just be a driver bug since he did say that the water effect appeared on the 5200

Typedef Enum · 05-24-03, 07:34 PM

It could very well be that such an "optimization" was pointless on the 5200.

05-24-03, 07:38 PM

I think it's premature to try to bring this to light. Since it occurs only on the gfFX5900 and gfFX5600, but not the gfFX5200, it might be cheating.

But B3D is not ready to come to such a conclusion without more testing. So you shouldn't jump to conclusions yet either.

Although it is interesting that Splinter Cell benchmarks jumped up with recent drivers, as did Shadermark results...I honestly wouldn't be surprised if nvidia was cheating.

P.S. I haven't read the thread today, just last night, so there may be new developments I missed. If so, just disregard my comments.

PreservedSwine · 05-24-03, 08:00 PM

Even thoughnVidia cheated in 3Dm03, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on yet another cheat. Would this bug/cheat affect the benchmark, or the game as well?

I'll reserve any judgment till all the facts are in....

Dazz · 05-25-03, 05:15 AM

Last i saw was that the GeForce FX range didn't render any special effects in Splinter cell, even the GeForce 4 Range rendered them. But perhaps thats been fixed but i havn't heard anyone say that it has? It's funny really as i though the game was based around the GeForce FX.

ChrisRay · 05-25-03, 05:29 AM

The shaders being rendered are DirectX 8 Shaders, Which is nothing remarkable.The Geforce FX has no problem with 1.1 Pixel Shaders.

I think they have jumped the gun on this. Where a bug is present. I really doubt this is a cheat.

The geforce FX handles DirectX 8.0 shaders fine. Heck Nvidia helped microsoft design the DX 8.0 Shader standards

In Regards to them focusing on this engine. I believe its important. As this engine is performing rather underwhelming on both ATI AND Nvidia cards right now

Dazz · 05-25-03, 05:41 AM

I wouldn't really say that as frame rates don't need to be as high for this game. Also saying cards an't perfoming verywell is an understatement, the Radeon 9600Pro is considerbly faster then a Radeon 9500Pro.

ChrisRay · 05-25-03, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dazz
I wouldn't really say that as frame rates don't need to be as high for this game. Also saying cards an't perfoming verywell is an understatement, the Radeon 9600Pro is considerbly faster then a Radeon 9500Pro.

I'm still trying to figure the 9600 thing out with this game. I can only assume this game benefits from higher bandwith rather than higher fill rate, And this game is not pushing fill rate at all.

Since you can't do any Anti Aliasing in this game currently. There's no real way to test that theory

DaveBaumann · 05-25-03, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisRay
The shaders being rendered are DirectX 8 Shaders, Which is nothing remarkable.The Geforce FX has no problem with 1.1 Pixel Shaders.

I think they have jumped the gun on this. Where a bug is present. I really doubt this is a cheat.

The geforce FX handles DirectX 8.0 shaders fine. Heck Nvidia helped microsoft design the DX 8.0 Shader standards

We've not actually stated anything, other than it looks odd. And, yes, you are correct - the FX should be fine with PS1.1, which is why I find it odd that this issue should occur in the first place. Its even odder that it occurs on some parts of the same architecture but not others.

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisRay
I'm still trying to figure the 9600 thing out with this game. I can only assume this game benefits from higher bandwith rather than higher fill rate, And this game is not pushing fill rate at all.

I thinks its evident that the R300 ASIC that 9500 uses had some issues with PS1.1:

http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/ati/r350/index.php?p=15

Both R350 and RV350 cleaned these issues up, and the difference in performance with SC is just a real world example of that.

05-24-03, 03:15 PM	#1
Typedef Enum Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 191	Splinter Cell: there might be another. http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6038 Beyond3D is currently looking into the Splinter Cell benchmark that they (B3D) created. To cut to the chase, there's a sequence where a Pixel shader is supposed to be applied to the ocean surface...and interestingly enough, this doesn't seem to be happening all the time with the 5900. Furthermore, the thing that's fueling the speculation at this point...beyond the fact that we now know that nVidia is a proven benchmark cheater...is the fact that they have been tipped off that an nVidia engineer's main mission in life was to focus on Splinter Cell benchmarking. I strongly believe this is only the beginning.

05-24-03, 05:23 PM	#3
Skinner Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,128	Well, with driver 43.51 there are also missing some sun/flares /beams sometimes, but I don't know if its a cheat. __________________ Intel i7@3,8gHzAsus P6T Deluxe* 2x Sapphire HD7970 3GB Crossfire 6 GB Corsair Dominator 1600C8OCZ Vertex 120 GB SSDadaptec 19160U160Intel X25 80 GB Quantum Atlas 15KII SCSI U160 147Gig* WD Raptor 300 GBApple 24" LED Cinema X-Fi TitaniumLogitech Z5500Coolmaster RP 1000WW7 64 Home

05-24-03, 05:33 PM	#4
jAkUp eat. sleep. overclock. Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Chino, California Posts: 17,744	hmmm... this might just be a driver bug since he did say that the water effect appeared on the 5200 __________________ 965xe \|\| evga x58 classified \|\| 3x evga gtx 480 \|\| 6gb g.skill \|\| win7 x64

05-25-03, 05:15 AM	#8
Dazz "TOON ARMY!" Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Newcastle, United Kingdom Posts: 5,138	Last i saw was that the GeForce FX range didn't render any special effects in Splinter cell, even the GeForce 4 Range rendered them. But perhaps thats been fixed but i havn't heard anyone say that it has? It's funny really as i though the game was based around the GeForce FX. __________________ "Never interupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." Processor: AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Black Edition @ 4.25GHz Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3 Graphics: ASUS ENGTX470 Memory: 4GB Kingston HyperX Blu PC12800 DDR3 Monitor: LG E2260V-PN Full HD WLED 22" & DELL 20" 2005FPW, Power: Coolermaster Silent Pro Modular 850w PSU Sound: Logitech Z5500 Digital. Cooling: Thermalright Silver Arrow. 1st Storage: Kingston V100 SSDNow128GB SSD 2nd Storage: Samsung Spinpoint F1 750GB

05-25-03, 05:29 AM	#9
ChrisRay Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Tulsa Posts: 5,101	The shaders being rendered are DirectX 8 Shaders, Which is nothing remarkable.The Geforce FX has no problem with 1.1 Pixel Shaders. I think they have jumped the gun on this. Where a bug is present. I really doubt this is a cheat. The geforce FX handles DirectX 8.0 shaders fine. Heck Nvidia helped microsoft design the DX 8.0 Shader standards In Regards to them focusing on this engine. I believe its important. As this engine is performing rather underwhelming on both ATI AND Nvidia cards right now __________________ \|CPU: Intel I7 Lynnfield @ 3.0 Ghz\|Mobo:Asus P7P55 WS Supercomputer \|Memory:8 Gigs DDR3 1333\|Video:Geforce GTX 295 Quad SLI\|Monitor:Samsung Syncmaster 1680x1080 3D Vision\/Olevia 27 Inch Widescreen HDTV 1920x1080 \|CPU: AMD Phenom 9600 Black Edition @ 2.5 Ghz\|Mobo:Asus M3n HT Deluxe Nforce 780A\|Memory: 4 gigs DDR2 800\| Video: Geforce GTX 280x2 SLI Nzone SLI Forum Administrator NVIDIA User Group Members receive free software and/or hardware from NVIDIA from time to time to facilitate the evaluation of NVIDIA products. However, the opinions expressed are solely those of the members Last edited by ChrisRay; 05-25-03 at 05:32 AM.

05-24-03, 03:19 PM	#2
DSC Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 881	Please ask DaveB and Rev to take screenshots, like the one DaveB did for GT4. This will help show clearly whats happening.

05-24-03, 07:34 PM	#5
Typedef Enum Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 191	It could very well be that such an "optimization" was pointless on the 5200.

05-24-03, 07:38 PM	#6
StealthHawk Guest Posts: n/a	I think it's premature to try to bring this to light. Since it occurs only on the gfFX5900 and gfFX5600, but not the gfFX5200, it might be cheating. But B3D is not ready to come to such a conclusion without more testing. So you shouldn't jump to conclusions yet either. Although it is interesting that Splinter Cell benchmarks jumped up with recent drivers, as did Shadermark results...I honestly wouldn't be surprised if nvidia was cheating. P.S. I haven't read the thread today, just last night, so there may be new developments I missed. If so, just disregard my comments.

05-24-03, 08:00 PM	#7
PreservedSwine I'm always hungry Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 548	Even thoughnVidia cheated in 3Dm03, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on yet another cheat. Would this bug/cheat affect the benchmark, or the game as well? I'll reserve any judgment till all the facts are in....

05-25-03, 05:41 AM	#10
Dazz "TOON ARMY!" Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Newcastle, United Kingdom Posts: 5,138	I wouldn't really say that as frame rates don't need to be as high for this game. Also saying cards an't perfoming verywell is an understatement, the Radeon 9600Pro is considerbly faster then a Radeon 9500Pro. __________________ "Never interupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." Processor: AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Black Edition @ 4.25GHz Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3 Graphics: ASUS ENGTX470 Memory: 4GB Kingston HyperX Blu PC12800 DDR3 Monitor: LG E2260V-PN Full HD WLED 22" & DELL 20" 2005FPW, Power: Coolermaster Silent Pro Modular 850w PSU Sound: Logitech Z5500 Digital. Cooling: Thermalright Silver Arrow. 1st Storage: Kingston V100 SSDNow128GB SSD 2nd Storage: Samsung Spinpoint F1 750GB

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