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Old 12-30-08, 08:48 AM   #1
laptopcrazzy
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Default MEDIOCRE SUPPORT FOR NVIDIA DRIVERS

The company I own bought a couple laptops a year ago KNOWING perfecty well that they would be in dual boot with XP and LINUX. We bought the laptops knowing of very good LINUX drivers for NVIDIA video cards. What a disapointment to see abysmal support for NVIDIA Linux drivers. All over the Internet you see people complaining that the Nvidia drivers for the new KDE 4 environment.

We bought these video adapter because we wanted better graphics NOT because we wanted the cheapest of the cheap. We have to use the opensource NV drivers. Something it seems to me that the company does not understand is that we paid 200$ for Nvidia products instead of the much cheaper ATI X1300 adapters.

The company spends a fortune on drivers for Windows why can't it release a driver that will work for our Linux laptops (Dell Vostro 1510).

By bragging about excellent drivers for Linux and NOT delivering I am asking is this in the best interest of the company and have the consumer whine?

Why hasn't the company come up with an efficient driver for 8400 M GS and 8600 M GS?

thanks
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Old 12-30-08, 09:17 AM   #2
Plagman
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Default Re: MEDIOCRE SUPPORT FOR NVIDIA DRIVERS

Are you using the latest 180.xx beta driver?
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Old 12-30-08, 10:14 AM   #3
kernelOfTruth
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Default Re: MEDIOCRE SUPPORT FOR NVIDIA DRIVERS

one of the reasons I continue buying Nvidia-stuff is that they release often and also improve stuff pretty quickly compared to AMD (amd is doing better since a few months ago), their multi-head support also is the best among its competition,

the biggest no-go for AMD was that almost every driver (or 2nd or 3rd driver) wouldn't install because of their crappy installer and it was locking up pretty often (from what I read those problems still exist),

the nvidia-driver module even supports my hardened box and hardened kernel (I know this somehow defeats the purpose of hardening :P )

you have to bear in mind that kde4 + qt4 is a pretty new GUI-system and not quite ready yet for 100% production use - there might be several bugs or glitches concerning performance

it's really getting better now and with kde 4.2 most of people should be able to use it

I'm suffering of several problems with it (I'm also having an 8400 M GS)

* hardlock with kde4 (tweaking xorg.conf seems to have fixed it - not sure yet)
* eating lots of memory (maybe a bug with Nvidia drivers but could also be something else)
* qt4 and gtk-apps and especially 2D not as snappy as with AMD's driver or even the open-source nv-driver
* more to come or to be fixed ?

please, Nvidia, raise your efforts with your drivers for Linux,

you're doing a great job right now

BUT at least the following should work until end of January 2009:

composited desktop with compiz(-fusion), kde4 (when kde 4.2 is ready) - whatever GUI

otherwise you're shooting yourself in your foot
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Old 12-30-08, 02:06 PM   #4
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Default Re: MEDIOCRE SUPPORT FOR NVIDIA DRIVERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by kernelOfTruth View Post
otherwise you're shooting yourself in your foot
It's not that they havn't done that before...
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Old 12-30-08, 03:38 PM   #5
laptopcrazzy
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Default Re: MEDIOCRE SUPPORT FOR NVIDIA DRIVERS

kerneloftruth you stated "otherwise you're (you the Nvidia corp.) shooting yourself in your foot"

Exaclty once again their video adapte are NOT free they cost a bundle and we bought them ESPECIALLY because we intented to use them in dual boot with LINUX that was the ONLY reason we upgraded from cheap ATI cards to 200$ Nvidia ones.

I urge the company to deliver on its ADVERTIZEMENT AND PROMISES THAT it offers top quality drivers for Linux. A shame they are not in my country cause a lawsuit they would AUTOMATICALLY loose.

Give the consumer what they want should be their motto!

And yes I tested the latest beta driver and NO it does not work properly. Buggy as hell.
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Old 12-30-08, 04:20 PM   #6
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Default Re: MEDIOCRE SUPPORT FOR NVIDIA DRIVERS

KDE4 in general is buggy with or without a nVidia card. Why are you creating a troll thread about this?

Switch to Gnome if you require a stable environment. I've run 7, 8, and 9 series nVidia cards under Gnome 2.24 with the 180.xx driver and I cannot say I've had lock ups, corruption, slow Compiz performance, or anything nasty happen. Just a minor memory leak issue that was fixed (hopefully) in 180.11.
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Old 12-30-08, 04:41 PM   #7
skirst
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Default Re: MEDIOCRE SUPPORT FOR NVIDIA DRIVERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooninite View Post
KDE4 in general is buggy with or without a nVidia card. Why are you creating a troll thread about this?

Switch to Gnome if you require a stable environment. I've run 7, 8, and 9 series nVidia cards under Gnome 2.24 with the 180.xx driver and I cannot say I've had lock ups, corruption, slow Compiz performance, or anything nasty happen. Just a minor memory leak issue that was fixed (hopefully) in 180.11.
I use Gnome 2.24 as well, and all the 180.xx betas are unusable for me. Random screen corruptions followed by a total system freeze (No logs, no ssh, no sysrq). I've done all I can to provide nvidia with a description of the freezes, operating conditions, bug reports, etc.. As have many other people. There are piles of threads on this very issue, with no conformation or acknowledgment from nvidia that a problem even exists. Yet there it is. I don't mind beta testing. But I do mind beta testing, finding a problem, reporting it, only to have it seemingly fall upon deaf ears. It's highly aggravating, not to mention a total waste of my time. That aside, the 177.82 stable drivers are 100% rock-solid in my gnome environment. Compiz or not.
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Old 12-30-08, 05:16 PM   #8
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Default Re: MEDIOCRE SUPPORT FOR NVIDIA DRIVERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by skirst View Post
I use Gnome 2.24 as well, and all the 180.xx betas are unusable for me. Random screen corruptions followed by a total system freeze (No logs, no ssh, no sysrq). I've done all I can to provide nvidia with a description of the freezes, operating conditions, bug reports, etc.. As have many other people. There are piles of threads on this very issue, with no conformation or acknowledgment from nvidia that a problem even exists. Yet there it is. I don't mind beta testing. But I do mind beta testing, finding a problem, reporting it, only to have it seemingly fall upon deaf ears. It's highly aggravating, not to mention a total waste of my time. That aside, the 177.82 stable drivers are 100% rock-solid in my gnome environment. Compiz or not.
Did you create a thread? Attach a bug report?

I've run almost all GTK apps under the sun and quite a few QT4 apps without issues on 7300,7950,8600,9500 cards. This includes 3D applications such as World of Warcraft under Wine without issues.

It seems you are only running an 8600M, which is embedded on a single platform. It could be a combination of your motherboard/chipset causing the issue to manifest. Create a thread with a bug report attach otherwise you'll never have your issue seriously reviewed.

nVidia representatives are replying to you, but since it's not a fixed driver their replies seem to be falling on deaf ears...
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Old 12-30-08, 05:27 PM   #9
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Default Re: MEDIOCRE SUPPORT FOR NVIDIA DRIVERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by laptopcrazzy View Post
A shame they are not in my country cause a lawsuit they would AUTOMATICALLY loose.
Guess we know who took the $5 law class instead of the $10 one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NVIDIA software license
6.2 No Liability for Consequential Damages. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT SHALL NVIDIA OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF BUSINESS PROFITS, LOSS OF DATA, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, LOSS OF BUSINESS INFORMATION, OR ANY OTHER PECUNIARY LOSS) ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE THE SOFTWARE, EVEN IF NVIDIA HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/nv_swlicense.html
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Old 12-30-08, 05:28 PM   #10
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Default Re: MEDIOCRE SUPPORT FOR NVIDIA DRIVERS

I can share my expierence on the nVidia vs ATI/AMD and general performance / issues topic.

I own nVidia card for laptop, desktop and AMD for desktop.
nVidia as a desktop machine which is not suspended / hibernated is working perfectly, coz I turn computer off at the evenings and turn it on at the mornings, 2D is somewhat laggy a bit (GF6600) but generally it's ok.

Laptop is my working horse, which is kinda crippled using nVidia drivers, no matter opensource or not. Opensource driver gives bad performance and no 3D, blob gives me no suspend with 180 series (177.82 is working excellent with suspend!), crappy hibernate with all series, really good 3D and quite good 2D starting 17x.xx drivers, which is improved by 180 series but they are not usable for at least my laptop (but by investigating this forum I'm faaaaaaaaaar not the only one suffering).

AMD card is blazing fast at 2D and really good at 3D. Compiz is working nice and it's pleasure to use it. However I had some issues with it, like it couldn't set my monitor to 1680x1050 and some other minor issues. But, I don't use this machine under linux heavily enough that I can tell - yeah, ATI blows away nVidia.

I have seen the same exact laptop as I have but with ATI chip and see what: suspend, hibernate is working perfectly, 2D is smooth and so on, which is actually the purpose of laptop - working horse...
The real pain in the ass is when U have a problem and nVidia people ask to use like latest drivers, which is kinda correct, but in case we can't use those drivers because of suspend / hibernate issues, then what? Nothing, not a single answer to any of these (suspend/hibernate) topics, what a shame...
Laptop is this sort of hardware that has to maintain the same software state as I closed the LID at work went to conference and continue work (and vice versa), any scenario with travel applies. How do one use laptop not using these features? I really want to see any nV people that tell me that suspend is not important to laptops... How do they test suspend... or performance in KDE (which I personally don't use at all).

What I like about nVidia is features, but outstanding critical bugs is just killing everything...
AMD is getting better, at least I don't have any critical issues and haven't seen any on laptops with ATI (I don't really know about connecting a beamer to laptop with ATI though), I do really see nice future in it (and I mean it), so my next chips most probably will be ATI (and I bought one already because I've had enough with green at that time ), but in case situation changes, who knows

For both I can tell that noone is really eager to support older chips, nor the green nor the red company. I think green is a bit better here, but I might be wrong...
And not having a bugzilla or similar stuff is a real shame...
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Old 12-30-08, 06:04 PM   #11
kernelOfTruth
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Default Re: MEDIOCRE SUPPORT FOR NVIDIA DRIVERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by laptopcrazzy View Post
kerneloftruth you stated "otherwise you're (you the Nvidia corp.) shooting yourself in your foot"

Exaclty once again their video adapte are NOT free they cost a bundle and we bought them ESPECIALLY because we intented to use them in dual boot with LINUX that was the ONLY reason we upgraded from cheap ATI cards to 200$ Nvidia ones.

I urge the company to deliver on its ADVERTIZEMENT AND PROMISES THAT it offers top quality drivers for Linux. A shame they are not in my country cause a lawsuit they would AUTOMATICALLY loose.

Give the consumer what they want should be their motto!

And yes I tested the latest beta driver and NO it does not work properly. Buggy as hell.
you bought a product with no contract where it's written that they're going to publish specs of their cards under the GPL or opening them up (there really should be !)

most of the manufacturers and/or companies seemingly do this on a voluntary basis ...

I'd also really like to see opensource nvidia-drivers that support every feature of those cards (TV-Out, powermizer, switching between monitor outputs, etc.) but if nvidia has more to lose in publishing opensource / "open" specs for their than they would get it makes perfectly sense to keep riding on their current train

one suggestion would be to invite good programmers of the open source community to hack on their drivers under an NDA but that's really not the ideal state - but I'm sure this would certainly raise the driver's quality

nvidia sure has a good marketing department - I'm sure everyone knows the slogan "the way it's meant to be played" but this is only supplying the gamer people ...

nvidia - please don't forget that a lot of the people buying your products for linux are not buying them for fun but for work and those customers need support, too

in my eyes cuda, physX, vdpau, etc. all have a bright future but to come true they definitely need to improve their support

by "shooting yourself in your foot" I meant that the other company/companies are putting more and more pressure on nvidia by releasing specs (opening up drivers), integrating better powersaving features into their chips and enabling them in linux, etc. "giving something back" to the community to play with (the freedom to do with your product what you want - reminds me somewhat about DRM and what it prevents you to do)

they don't need to (or cannot) but they HAVE TO work on their drivers issues (remember those bluescreens and hardlocks that used to occur with windows vista - I'm still getting these )

so perhaps they need some (new) additional programmers for their drivers who know how to get the best out of it

that's a huge number of "but's" I'm having there
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Old 12-30-08, 08:18 PM   #12
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Default Re: MEDIOCRE SUPPORT FOR NVIDIA DRIVERS

To the original poster...

What exactly is wrong w/ the latest Nvidia drivers and Vostro 1510 support.......?
Hard for anyone to help you unless you list specifics...
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