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Old 03-14-09, 08:04 PM   #13
kernelOfTruth
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Default Re: New graphics stack? GEM support? Kernel mode-setting?

what's really important from my point of view is that they create an STABLE kernel-interface / ABI for graphics drivers that doesn't change with EVERY kernel-release

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Not to mention the kernel should really be doing the memory management, no? If you don't think so - you need to go take an operating systems class.
that depends on how efficient the nvidia-drivers' memory manager is, don't you think ?

if it's much more efficient than the one in-kernel something needs to change
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Old 03-14-09, 09:00 PM   #14
nevion
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Default Re: New graphics stack? GEM support? Kernel mode-setting?

It's not a question of efficiency, if that's so then the kernel's memory manager needs to be improved. On the other hand are you saying nvidia's memory manager is better then linux's? From what I've read, linux has one of the best memory managers period. Way more time tested as well.

It's true they need stable api...abi isn't as important as long as the right opensource glue exists. DRI2 and GEM (stabilized enough or stabilizing) should be all they need to hook in and then maybe they could keep the majority of their unified driver code.

Anywho, you really don't want more than one memory manager with the complex beast an os is... it just makes life more difficult in the end.
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Old 03-15-09, 05:20 AM   #15
Dragoran
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Default Re: New graphics stack? GEM support? Kernel mode-setting?

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Originally Posted by nevion View Post
It's not a question of efficiency, if that's so then the kernel's memory manager needs to be improved. On the other hand are you saying nvidia's memory manager is better then linux's? From what I've read, linux has one of the best memory managers period. Way more time tested as well.
You are confusing the memory management for your system ram with a GPU memory manager.
Before GEM was merged there was no memory manager for GPUs at all in the kernel.
The TTM memory manager was there before but never made it into the linux kernel.
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Old 03-15-09, 07:35 AM   #16
nevion
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Default Re: New graphics stack? GEM support? Kernel mode-setting?

Yes I was, I believed GEM made it all just virtual memory but instead this is only partially true and only through mmap usage.

I find it odd with NUMA and all the other stuff out there that this wasn't put together exactly in the virtual memory management fashion I believed it to be. Instead it is mostly a client/server or command/remotely process model with ioctl abuse (ioctl at least for now). This makes me sad.

But still, the more that can be moved to the kernel, the better. The true IP nvidia protects and keeps behind closed doors is just their algorithms for gpu stuff not linux/kernel interfacing right? I'm pretty sure the kernel's facilities will grow to be bugfree faster than nvidia's equivalent. So at the right time, doesn't this cut their costs by giving them less code to manage while not endangering their IP at all?
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Old 03-15-09, 07:44 AM   #17
Lysius
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Default Re: New graphics stack? GEM support? Kernel mode-setting?

As I know the kindergarten at kernel.org everything will be GPL only and therefore of no use for Nvidia (the same with KMS). Even If Nvidia wanted to contribute to the kernel, I don't think their work would be accepted unless they release their whole driver under GPL.
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Old 03-15-09, 06:49 PM   #18
mfb
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Default Re: New graphics stack? GEM support? Kernel mode-setting?

Even if NVIDIA could implement GEM, they can't. GEM is very Intel-specific, and that's ok but it makes it useless for any other drivers.
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Old 03-15-09, 11:11 PM   #19
nullack
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Default Re: New graphics stack? GEM support? Kernel mode-setting?

GEM was made to be extensible.

Anyway, AFAIK the code is crossplatform for *Nix, OSX and Windows so its unlikely NVIDIA will change the core of its codebase just for linux and introduce all the dev resource demands that places, plus all the issues with regression on non mature code.
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