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Old 08-27-02, 07:21 AM   #1
Pav
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Default NV18 and NV28 names revealed

I noticed @ Warp2Search that they discovered that recent 31.00 drivers appear to show what NV18/28 cards will be named and just by looking @ the names - you can't help to conclude that NV18/NV28 will be nothing more then a Geforce 4 with a agp 8x support. Now I wonder what will nVidia come up with to sell these - let me think - "Geforce4 is now twice as fast!!!" - LOL

More info @ Warp2Search

Also I would like to make this point - It is indeed very interesting that no information has leaked about NV28 or NV18 other then the fact that it will have AGP 8x support and some number of extra transistors over NV25. At the same time so much hype and marketing BS has been released about NV30. Don't you find it a bit weird that noone is talking about NV18/NV28? No single fan nvidia website, no major hardware site - total silence. Weird huh? NV30 is still so far away yet we already heard a lot about it (nothing concrete though I guess). Makes you wonder, doesn't it............

My theory - The latest news about the naming of NV18/NV28 in a way tells us that perhaps there's nothing to talk about? I mean if its only Geforce4 + AGP 8x - who cares? lol - so in a way maybe that explains lack on Marketing PR and Hype about nv18/nv28 and lack of info leaks in that area. Its NV30 that nVidia wants to hype up because with NV18/28 it might be hard to come up with something
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Old 08-27-02, 07:49 AM   #2
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The NDA for the NV30 is partly lifted: the NDA for the NV28/NV18 is not lifted at all.

That has been proved by Jen Hsun Huang at the investor meeting. He could talk a little about the NV30, but not a single word about the NV28 was said ( yes, an analyst did try to get some info but failed )


nVidia strategy is simple: Hype their high-end products so that people not having the money for them say "Hey, even if it costs less, since it's made by the company making the NV30, it gotta be good too!"

*cough*Geforce4 MX*cough*

However, i *do* think the NV28/NV18 will have new features.

Remember, the Geforce4 MX, even if ti wasn't a DX8 card, it still had nView and Accuview AA. I think a similar thing is going to happen ( maybe nV is going 3DFX way for AA? Who knows... )


According to official nVidia information ( and that's the only official info on this ) , the NV28 will have more than 80 million transistors. That's as much as Matrox card! Good thing TSMC 0.15 is very mature by now...


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Old 08-27-02, 08:14 AM   #3
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Just looked at my 30.82 and 31.00 drivers inf. In the 30.82, i find no NV28 info.

In the 31.00, i find the NV28 and it's simply called "NV28".

Would that link at Warp2Search be saying incorrect information, eh?

And yes, i downloaded those drivers from Guru3D, which also seems to be that article source.

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Old 08-27-02, 08:40 AM   #4
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the .inf file says nv18/28 because its been modded by guru3d - its the driver files that say geforce4 xxxxx with agp 8x - simple hex editor can open them and some of them say this instead of nv28/18 like in 30.82 drivers and before.

As to your thoughts about new features - think about this - if nv28 would have any nv30 features or any new features why would nvidia name it Geforce 4 Ti 4200/4600 with agp 8x? Why not call it geforce5 or even geforce 4 ti 4800?

Last edited by Pav; 08-27-02 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 08-27-02, 12:49 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pav
the .inf file says nv18/28 because its been modded by guru3d - its the driver files that say geforce4 xxxxx with agp 8x - simple hex editor can open them and some of them say this instead of nv28/18 like in 30.82 drivers and before.

As to your thoughts about new features - think about this - if nv28 would have any nv30 features or any new features why would nvidia name it Geforce 4 Ti 4200/4600 with agp 8x? Why not call it geforce5 or even geforce 4 ti 4800?
Well, to be sincere, i doubt it's REALLY going to be named that way.

I'm pretty much betting they're calling it that way because Marketing didn't choose a name. However, it is an indication nV engineers think it isn't so new.

So, yes, it won't likely be much different from a NV25. But they wouldn't add 20 million transistors that do no effect...


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Old 08-27-02, 12:49 PM   #6
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I still don't think the NV28 will have 86 million transistors. 66 is more likely.
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Old 08-27-02, 02:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bigus Dickus
I still don't think the NV28 will have 86 million transistors. 66 is more likely.
For crises sake, it has been CONFIRMED and broadcasted on T.V and people saw it and the numbers were clearly visible there and the CEO repeated them himself during the press conference!
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Old 08-27-02, 04:33 PM   #8
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Doesn't mean much. PR has been wrong before. IOf you can find a link to Nvidia's website that has 86 million or 66 million, I'll believe it.
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Old 08-27-02, 06:04 PM   #9
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So what will NV28 be? All of the sudden I am very interested.

<wild speculation on>
What if NV took a GF4 core, added a 256 bit memory bus for outrageous bandwidth, and made some other tweaks to the core...Lets see, the R300's cream the Ti4600 is all current games which are largely bandwidth dependent...so a GF4 core may be able to compete with the R300 on today's types of games. Then add in the fact that a GF4 core with "reasonably" minor changes for the wider bus and some tweaks should be relatively cheap for NV to design and validate and it's built on a money efficient 0.15 um process. That means they might be make it cheaply...Cheap enough to severely undercut a R300 board in price? Maybe. That would mean that NV would release a product with outrageous bandwidth and competes head to head with an R300 in today's games but lacks the DX9 (which isn't out yet) certifcation for significantly less money. That would be really interesting.

Of course, that is all unsubstantiated guessing with absolutely no basis in rumors or reality.
<wild speculation off>

Guess we just have to wait until tomorrow to see what NV shows.
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Old 08-27-02, 08:23 PM   #10
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the answer is quite simple. nvidia isn't hyping NV28 because they know it can't stand up to the R9700Pro.

what are they supposed to do, yell "we've got the second fastest card on the planet coming out SOON." no, wait, we already have the 2nd fastest card on the market
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Old 08-28-02, 12:10 AM   #11
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The Nv28 will be in performance between RAdeon9700 and Geforce4 ,
so if they add higher clocked DDR avaible memory 900Mhz ?
with a higher clocked core ,in a .15 process ,but with TWO TMUS
not ONe like the radeon 9700, that should mean
a card 15%-25% slower than the RAdeon9700 overall in AA+AF settings but for $249 ..

and even faster!! than Radeon9700 in many benchamrks where the RAdeon9700 only got from 10frames-20frames more than Geforce4 with AA/AF disable..

heavy multitexture games that benefit more for the EXTRA TMU
the Geforce4 already have + 900mhz+ DDR memory plus + higer clocks
should make the NV28 25% faster in multitextures games like
like Jedinight2/RTCW/QUake3/Medalofhonor/UnrealTorunament2003 ...

86 millions transitors for $259 for an Nvidia card is something i would like to see ,how its score against radeon9700...
i think Radeon9700 will be faster overall but not anymore for more than 20%-30% in direcx8 games

Nv30 will be more a better competition for the
Radeon R350 (a .13 refresh of Radeon9700) but will
be avaible by the end of this year

Last edited by Nv40; 08-28-02 at 12:36 AM.
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Old 08-28-02, 12:33 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nv40
The Nv28 will be in performance between RAdeon9700 and Geforce4 ,
so if they add higher clocked DDR avaible memory 900Mhz ?
with a higher clocked core ,in a .15 process ,but with TWO TMUS
not ONe like the radeon 9700, that should mean
a card 15%-25% slower than the RAdeon9700 overall in AA+AF settings but for $249 ..
That's got to be the funniest thing I've ever read. So they're going to bump the clock rates up, and it will go from being 100%++ slower to only 15% to 20%. Yep, I can't wait to see that GF4 clocked at 500/500! LOL
Quote:
and even faster!! than Radeon9700 in many benchamrks where the RAdeon9700 only got from 10frames-20frames more than Geforce4 with AA/AF disable..
Ever hear of CPU limited games/benchmarks? Guess not. Another lol for that one.
Quote:
heavy multitexture games that benefit more for the EXTRA TMU
the Geforce4 already have + 900mhz+ DDR memory plus + higer clocks
should make the NV28 25% faster in multitextures games like
like Jedinight2/RTCW/QUake3/Medalofhonor/UnrealTorunament2003 ...
Nope, I was mistaken previously. THAT is the funniest thing I've ever read. You do realize that the 9700 has the same number of TMU's as the GF4, don't you?
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