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Old 06-02-03, 09:13 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally posted by GlowStick
Actually all 3d video cards do that to an extent, and they also do it for the Z plane, withc is objects behind a wall etc, just not as efficnet as a static one.

But PowerVR's idea is they can do a better job of clipping in real time, and they actually did.
Argh, I knew I wouldn't get away with just posting the short answer

Yes, ATI and nVidia both have methods of hidden surface removal which are an order of magnitude less effective than PowerVR's. Not sure if older cards/other manufacturer are using these methods or not. But, PVR proved that deferred rendering can work, it's a shame they don't release some high-end cards.

As a side note to the whole 3dmark thing - It is a common practice for developers to put in their own clip planes to reduce workload. Obviously, nvidia doing it for them (and only for nvidia cards) is not quite the same
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Old 06-02-03, 09:13 PM   #110
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and also... intel is coming out and saying "this is mmx optimized" or such... nvidia kinda slipped behind futuremarks back... and did their own thing. yes it looks the same... etc. but in real games, there is no such things as clip planes.

now that futuremark are taking offers and such... i dont feel that 3dmark can be credible at all... bitboys could offer a hunk of cash and suddenly have the fastest 3dmark03 card...lol

so...... whens aquamark 3 coming out???
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Old 06-02-03, 09:16 PM   #111
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Neural: Did you really mean to say "how nVidia could hide the clip panes in their drivers?" or how did they put them there? Obviously hiding anything in drivers isn't really an issue. it's not like everyone searches through every file to discover such things. You wouldn't be able to find anything unless you had the source code and you seriously knew what you were looking for anyways.

I don't really know anything of Intel optimizing or whatever. I think it would be obvious though if intel decided to optimize just for a particular synthetic benchmark then that would be completely wrong. Especially if it gave consumers a wrong idea of how a particular CPU performed. Obviously optimizing for an actual program is great. If it runs it runs and if it runs even faster then all the better.

It's different when you are talking graphics though. It's the same if you're talking about a synthetic benchmark, it shouldn't be specifically optimized for to improve it's performance at all. When it comes to games then us consumers deserve to see the game exact as it's developer intended it to be shown. It's not right to be cheated of that right. Cheating in a game benchmark is the worst of them all. Giving us consumers the wrong impression of how a video card will perform in that actual game. I know I sure don't want to be fooled.
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Old 06-02-03, 09:21 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally posted by c4c
Argh, I knew I wouldn't get away with just posting the short answer

Yes, ATI and nVidia both have methods of hidden surface removal which are an order of magnitude less effective than PowerVR's. Not sure if older cards/other manufacturer are using these methods or not. But, PVR proved that deferred rendering can work, it's a shame they don't release some high-end cards.

As a side note to the whole 3dmark thing - It is a common practice for developers to put in their own clip planes to reduce workload. Obviously, nvidia doing it for them (and only for nvidia cards) is not quite the same
ah, yeah sorry for that hehe
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Old 06-02-03, 09:21 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally posted by jAkUp
so...... whens aquamark 3 coming out???
The really unfortunate part about this whole thing is that now it doesn't matter. aquamark 3 will be cheated in too. The benchmark is the loser here. The cheater came out on top. Why the blame is put on to the benchmark and not on to the cheater I will never know.
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Old 06-02-03, 09:24 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally posted by solofly
Itís good to be an nVidia fanboy... (hehe) Lets put it this way, nVidia just save Futuremark from going under. Who would Ati compete with then, themselves? Yes, yes but I donít want to hear your crying who is right and who is wrong, pointing fingers and such. If you think life is fair then youíre wrong. The only justice in this world is death and nothing else, rich or poor. This is almost better than a movie...
"POOF! All is now AOK!" -Kyle

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Old 06-02-03, 09:26 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally posted by gordon151
First dibs on this statement! Yay!

Both ExtremeTech and Beyond3D acknowledged the existence of clip planes because they were the only (i.e. NO HardOCP and Anandtech) sites which had access to the developer versions of 3DMark03. Difference is Beyond3D made a quiet mention of it on their forums and notified Nvidia while ExtremeTech notified Nvidia and probably after no reply wrote a huge article about the ordeal. This was backed up by Futuremark and even in this press release they made an explicit statement regards to the type of cheat that Nvidia used, but not directly commenting onwhat Nvidia did.

the problem is that now Futuremark says NVidia was not cheating
only optimizing. so now who are you going to believe
FUturemark or those sites ?


i think the right thing to do is an apology from ET and B3d to Nvidia.

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Old 06-02-03, 09:26 PM   #116
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This you over on rage? Cracked me up. I think both sides of the issue need to lay low and kill the smack talk.
Let's leave what happens on Rage3d over at Rage3d, shall we?
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Old 06-02-03, 09:26 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ady
The really unfortunate part about this whole thing is that now it doesn't matter. aquamark 3 will be cheated in too. The benchmark is the loser here. The cheater came out on top. Why the blame is put on to the benchmark and not on to the cheater I will never know.
well... the day aquamark 3 is released there will be no cheats in the current generation of cards and drivers. after that though... the next driver updates, and cards will have cheats.
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Old 06-02-03, 09:27 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scorched 2.0
"POOF! All is now AOK!" -Kyle

hmm... "Poof" is slang for Homosexual in this country.
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Old 06-02-03, 09:27 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nv40
the problem is that now Futuremark says NVidia was not cheating
only optimizing. so now who are you going to believe
FUturemark or those sites ?
what would you say if you were a small company that was threatened to be put out of business??
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Old 06-02-03, 09:28 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nv40
the problem is that now Futuremark says NVidia was not cheating
only optimizing. so now who are you going to believe
FUturemark or those sites ?
Gimme a break with that crap, you know whats going on....... stop being such a drone.
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