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Old 06-03-03, 01:58 AM   #205
Nv40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zenikase
So anything designed for Windows is automatically backed by Microsoft and thus inherently evil? Your logic seems a bit flawed, my friend.

Besides, the DirectX specification isn't decided upon solely by Microsoft themselves. They're not going to go ahead and change the specification without the approval of, say, Carmack and Sweeney. Major players from all parts of the field gather to put their ideas into the next DX standard.

Does OpenGL offer raytracing and realtime radiosity? If so, I wasn't aware. Maybe we really should ditch DirectX. I mean, it's practically useless and obviously just an evil marketing tool from Microsoft.
seems you too.. only can see things as black or white.
in no way i suggest they are evil or a good company..
actually i enjoy their latest OS products
they are simply a Business company looking for more money.
like every other one. THe problem is when that company controls
at all the time the direction of the technology . a company with no
experience in graphics hardware and not enough experience in game development,controlling the direction of graphics in the pc industry.
for one reasons those developers you mention support OPENGL too.
for one reason every day more and more developers support LInux and OPenGL. innovations can only exist when standars are flexible enough
and when they benefits the majority .

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Old 06-03-03, 02:03 AM   #206
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Originally posted by nV News Forum Poster
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
yadda yadda yadda...badda-bing badda-boom
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Old 06-03-03, 02:14 AM   #207
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Heck, I'm not surprised at all. I just wonder how much nVidia had to pay for this...

In the last few days I was looking around for a card to upgrade my GF3, and in the end decided not to. GeForce FX disapoints me (the good ones are too expensive and the cheap ones are not worthy) and ATI, I never had the chance to try out one (the drivers still spook me, and I won't buy one until I have the chance to try one out for a couple of days) because they are quite hard to find here where I live. So I'm going to buy myself a DVD-R and spend a week vacation on some island in the atlantic.

About 3DMark, I actually believed in their benchmarks. Sure, manufacturers could cheat, but I believed 3DMark would try hard to control the cheatings, and thus keep the scores true. Now that 3DMark themselves come out and tell me this bull****, it's okay. You still can use it as a nice demo to show off your card to your friends, but its benchmark value has dropped to zero.
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Old 06-03-03, 02:41 AM   #208
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I feel quite sorry for ATI at the end of this. They seem, yet again, to have go the sh*tty end of the stick!

According to the FutureMark whitepaper, their *optimisation* is still a cheat, while FutureMark have now endorsed NVidia who didn't cheat but used application specific optimisation.

I think DELL meditated this, they probably told FutureMark that they would endorse their product if they, FM, were to retract the cheating statement about NVidia. DELL uses a lot of NVidia chips and is also a member of the FM beta testers program it would make sense for them to strike a deal.

But at the end of the day FutureMark have said that ATI *cheated* (which they didn't really), and that Nvidia didn't (which they did really), and we've all seen the evidence of ATI's cheating on TechTV!!!
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Old 06-03-03, 03:50 AM   #209
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I think DELL meditated this, they probably told FutureMark that they would endorse their product if they, FM, were to retract the cheating statement about NVidia. DELL uses a lot of NVidia chips and is also a member of the FM beta testers program it would make sense for them to strike a deal.
Well for a conspiracy theory its definately plausable that Dell could do this. Both Nvidia and FUturemark currently want Dells partnership.

Anywho. Theres no gaurentee that happenedl


And its more likely lawsuit stuff
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Old 06-03-03, 04:37 AM   #210
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Another interesting development along the path to the future of 3d... not too surprising really that companies are finding a way to minimise embrassement and move forward together again.
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Old 06-03-03, 04:41 AM   #211
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Quote:
Originally posted by muzz
The Donkey at [H] starts off his linkage with:

POOF! All is now AOK!

That is the first line that was put up above the story.......

What a drone, he BLASTED ATi for ALOT LESS........

I thought I lost all respect for him awhile ago.....

Guess I was wrong....

Silly me....
that was blatant sarcasm
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Old 06-03-03, 04:48 AM   #212
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FM has finally done something right. NV was not cheating. NV has never cheated. I agree 100% with Kyle from [H] and NV as well as FM.

nVIDIA has never cheated in 3dMark or anywhere. Ati has always cheated. NV's OGMS is far better than Ati's SGAA.

Who in the living hell would accuse NV of cheating? They never cheat.

There are no cheats in 3dmark03. Never!

We are not afraid of Ati. Allah has condemned them. They are stupid. They are stupid (dramatic pause) and they are condemned.

People who don't believe FM, they always depend on a method what I call ... stupid, silly. All I ask is check yourself. Do not in fact repeat their lies.

The non-NV/non-FM press is all about lies! All they tell is lies, lies and more lies!

Lying is forbidden on the internet. NV and FM PR will tolerate nothing but truthfulness as they men of great honor and integrity. Everyone is encouraged to speak freely of the truths evidenced in their eyes and hearts.

I triple guarantee you, there are no cheats in the drivers.

These cowards have no morals. They have no shame about lying. [refering to people who don't believe FM and NV]
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Old 06-03-03, 04:55 AM   #213
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hehe this is the funniest part:

"Futuremark now states that NVIDIA's driver design is an application specific optimization and not a cheat."

nice rethorics
we state it but we don't mean it
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Old 06-03-03, 05:23 AM   #214
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Quote:
First I must admit that there is very little I can comment about the joint statement between Futuremark and Nvidia due to legal aspects. What I can do is answer some frequently asked questions about this and quote some parts of the statement.

Please read the statement well and do not post hasty conclusion after reading only the first two paragraphs of the statement.

Q: Does this mean what you called originally as "cheats" actually were acceptable "optimizations", and that you made a wrong decicion in releasing Patch 330 and the Audit Report?
A: By the definition of our benchmark and process, the optimizations are not acceptable. 3DMark scores are only comparable if drivers perform exactly the work 3DMark instructs them to do.

The statement also says: Quote:
Because all modifications that change the workload in 3DMark03 are forbidden, we were obliged to update the product to eliminate the effect of optimizations identified in different drivers so that 3DMark03 continued to produce comparable results.


As earlier stated, we recommend using the latest build 330 of 3DMark03, with the 44.03 (or 43.51 WHQL) Nvidia drivers, or the Catalyst 3.4 ATI drivers. This way obtained 3DMark03 results are genuinely comparable as far as we know.

Q: What is the reasoning behind this statement?
A: Both companies want to end the public dispute that has been going on since we launched 3DMark03 in mid-February this year.

Q: Did NVIDIA pay you any money to make this statement?
A: No, they did not. Our companies had a mutual desire to end this dispute, and we are very pleased that we reached this agreement.

Q: Does this mean that in the future you will not make patches for 3DMark03 (or 3DMark2001) in order to reveal cheating?
A: We might release further patches to 3DMark03, if a need for preventing driver optimizations appear in the future.
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Old 06-03-03, 05:32 AM   #215
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Is this a good response from ATI?

Quote:
OK time to get in the fun.

ITS CM TIME!!!!

First of all as a favor to me, leave Kyle and Brent out of this. This has nothing to do with them. Period

Secondly I am a little upset tonight so I wont say much until tomorrow.

Third I guarantee you that I will ask for an investigation for optimized drivers tomorrow such that has never happened in ATI's history. I am prepared to put a hold on all new features I have in the pipeline so our top engineers can see how much we can optmize by not rendering the whole scene. I am guessing we can gain 25% at this point.

Fourth I am not commiting to do these optimizations ever in a released driver but I think its time for apples to apples comparison.

Fifth I am sorry to hear you (the end consumers) so dissapointed in the state of the industry. I feel for you.

Sixth, you all have my personal guarantee that if you continue to support ATI the way you have so far, I will always be here to help out and be one of the boyz on the forums. (I hope that means something to at least some of you)]

Have a good night everyone and lets talk more tomorrow
Terry
From Catalyst Maker over @ Rage3D...

I don't think that's a very good response, they're basically saying we endorse NVidia's method too and just to prove we are no better than they are we will devote time and money into ensuring the consumer and the industry both suffer.

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Old 06-03-03, 05:54 AM   #216
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Originally posted by Zenikase
You also have to consider the fact that there are more console gamers than PC gamers, since most people don't like going through the trouble of dealing with bugs/crashes, incompatibility, poor performance, etc. Others may not have a system powerful enough to enjoy the game (although this has become less and less common, with the trickling down of DX8.1-class video cards into the value market). With a console you just pop in the disc and you're set. This, plus the fact that console games are much harder to pirate, due to proprietary mediums and the complex hardware modding required to play a pirated game that not only could be risky, but voids your warranty.
Well yeah...hence there are more console game sales. The reasons don't really matter, just that fact that it happens.

I also think that one of the reasons consoles are more prevalent is thier relatively low price and longevity. Although, for the point of this discussion it doesn't really matter why more console games are sold. Mainly because I don't see PC game sales increasing faster than console sales, or even catching up with them.
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