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Old 06-03-03, 05:58 AM   #217
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Quote:
Originally posted by ntxawg
didnt nvidia originally say it was a driver bug but now they say it was optimization.. sheesh looks like its time to demand a refund
At least they aren't claiming it's a driver bug or that Futuremark is out to get them. It's a start, right?
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Old 06-03-03, 06:26 AM   #218
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Originally posted by SurfMonkey
Is this a good response from ATI?



From Catalyst Maker over @ Rage3D...

I don't think that's a very good response, they're basically saying we endorse NVidia's method too and just to prove we are no better than they are we will devote time and money into ensuring the consumer and the industry both suffer.

agree.
its time for "cheats" to "cheats"?
bad move.
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Old 06-03-03, 06:28 AM   #219
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The statement is CLEARLY a result of pressure from Nvidia's lawyers on Futuremark. Consider the statement an out of court settlement so to speak.

Futuremark no longer calls Nvidia's cheats "cheats" and Nvidia doesn't take all of Futuremarks money away.

The end result is that the consumer is now screwed again.

Damn and I just bought an Nforce2 based mobo.

I feel so dirty....
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Old 06-03-03, 06:31 AM   #220
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Quote:
Originally posted by SurfMonkey
Is this a good response from ATI?



From Catalyst Maker over @ Rage3D...

I don't think that's a very good response, they're basically saying we endorse NVidia's method too and just to prove we are no better than they are we will devote time and money into ensuring the consumer and the industry both suffer.

*cough* sarcasm *cough*

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Old 06-03-03, 07:25 AM   #221
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Futuremark made a very bad move (for them and for us).
Only for that, ATI should do the same as Nvidia.

Why?

because futuremark as signed his own death. Nvidia not only discarded the benchmark for nv users, but now they succeed in completly discredit the bench for ATI users too. I was defending 3dmark, but now they are undefendable.

ATI will make thoose cheats too, they will reach the 7000 barier, then Nvidia will drop 3dmark again, and ATI will listen to there users who will now think the same as nv users: "3dmark is useless".

Wow, is there someone at futuremark who is reasoning?
add to this that Nvidia didn't apologize and made it brute force...

ATI has to do it, the outcome will be better for them then doing nothing (and futuremark deserve it)
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Old 06-03-03, 07:26 AM   #222
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Damn straight they cheated!

..This "about face" by futuremark is the result of one thing and one thing only..

Lawyers, and good expensive ones. The kind a huge company like Nvidia can sick on a small company like Futuremark, period. What other possible explaination can thier be? The mud slinging has been particularly intense, with Futuremark releasing a patch (330) almost immediately after the discovery. Then we all wake up one day and they are all kissy kissy? I think not.
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Old 06-03-03, 07:43 AM   #223
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i believe ati really has no option but to cheat... now futuremark is sleeping in bed with nvidia, and ati's products look inferior in 3dmark because of the cheats... i guess this really is one of those time you need to cheat to get ahead. if ati can pull off the same type of cheats in 3dmark03 as nvidia did... their products should be faster than nv.

of course... now 3dmark03 will turn into a cheating benchmark... where the best cheats win. and will be completely useless... sometimes i seriously wish 3dmark03 never existed
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Old 06-03-03, 08:10 AM   #224
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Why doesn't Futuremark simply add a scenario to their benchmark that highlights NV FP16 and 12 optimizations to shaders that have to be run in FP24 on ATI hardware...you could compare the framerates of each while not affecting the benchmark scores.

Instead of arguing the relevance of the benchmark, why don't Nvidia fans simply attempt to educate people on the fact that not all shaders have to be compiled at top precision, and that the FX has a higher degree of flexibility in this regard, and does best when in a situation where developers can optimize shaders for the FX, as in Doom 3? That, to me, would be the civilized solution.

Instead, we have Nvidia and even some fans out there telling us it's alright to cheat when you disagree with the rules. "Oh, well, since the customer obviously can't tell what's best for them, they need to be lied to." What ever happened to, "if you don't like the game, don't play?" Wasn't that what Nvidia was telling us they were gonna do with 3dMark at the debut of the FX? I've seen better behavior on grade school playgrounds.

I'm sorry, but we're talking about a lot of money for a video card these days, and I can't afford to be lied to about any aspect of it, as this casts doubts on the whole. Nvidia isn't saying "this is an irrelevant benchmark" anymore, they're saying "you're too stupid to make your own decisions, so we went ahead and made them for you." Nvidia would have won my respect with higher performance and image quality in games...but now they've just earned my contempt.
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Old 06-03-03, 08:14 AM   #225
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Quote:
Originally posted by jAkUp
of course... now 3dmark03 will turn into a cheating benchmark... where the best cheats win. and will be completely useless... sometimes i seriously wish 3dmark03 never existed
As long as they don't have to take too many resources away from real games, I hope ATI does demo a cheating driver, so long as it comes with a warning to users that results obtained are for illustration purposes only. After all, we all want a level playing field here, right?
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Old 06-03-03, 08:29 AM   #226
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nv40
heck.. i bought Ravenshield
and many other games ,when they kick ass they deserve my money
ahh ravenshield... a perfect example of the buggy state games are in. dont get me wrong, right now this is my favorite game, but the bugs in the shipped product are really really bad... here are some examples

trigger lag- play an online game... click the mouse hard so you can actually hear the *click* you will hear the click... then the shot... the trigger lag is horrible. this has been tested on dsl and cable. even with a ping of 20.

the ready up bug- ok how did this slip by QA??!!! it has been fixed in the latest patch... but it took them 3 months! a bug that should of never been there

the infinite loop bugs- and how did this slip by??? this game was unplayable for me out of the box for this... it required me to go to the official message board to figure out how to fix it... why was this not in the manual or readme??? ridiculous... at least the latest patch fixed this also

cheating- the cheating is really really bad... and ubi doesnt seem to give a **** about it.

there are plenty more bugs too.
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Last edited by jAkUp; 06-03-03 at 08:34 AM.
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Old 06-03-03, 08:33 AM   #227
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Quote:
Originally posted by vampireuk
so if NVIDIA brought the nv40 out and it smoked all the competition you would not buy that because of the bussiness ethics of the company?
ABSOLUTELTY! I know that I for one will never buy anything from Nvidia, ever! Nor will I recommend any Nvidia products to anyone ever again. Nothing!

I don't care that much about FPS to actually have any dealing with weasles if I can help it. I will never trust Nvidia and I'm not in the habit of dealing with people or companies that I can't trust.

Quote:
Originally posted by vampireuk
True they may not be right at times but remember they are in this soley for money.
As you say, it's all about making money and I'm not giving Nvidia anymore of my money EVERY AGAIN!



Futuremark backs off after apparent Nvidia scarification.
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Old 06-03-03, 08:53 AM   #228
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Exclamation Want to let Futuremark know you're displeased?

I was reading B3D and one of the smarter fellas recomended deleting all your 3dm2k3 scores from the orb. Not only will it make 3dm2k3 less effective, but it'll send a message to FM.

I just deleted all mine, I recomend this course of action to anyone who is displeased with the joint announcement yesterday.
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