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Old 06-02-03, 07:55 PM   #73
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$D03 is now just a demo... nothing more
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Old 06-02-03, 07:56 PM   #74
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Well, everyone has a tail. I sit on mine.

I will stand by I think way to much was made out of the whole thing.
If compaines want to add code for Nvidia then so be it.
Same for ATI.

Also where is the real ""proof"" NV used cliping planes?
One site said they did but I find it funny no other site agreed. Such as Hardocp or anandtech.

Last edited by bkswaney; 06-02-03 at 07:59 PM.
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Old 06-02-03, 07:57 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by NickSpolec
Hmm.. Ok, you can only list 2 games (unless you can tell me what Quake actually had an optimized code path for... Wait.. That was only 3DFX.. proves my point further) that are actually out, and 2 games that are still being developed..

Out of the HUNDREDS of PC games that have come out since the time when optimized code paths became an option, you can name 3 that are out?

My point exactly.

If games do include optimized code paths, it's never always fair.. They usually only take the time to do one optimized code path (if they take the time to include any at all) for a single hardware set.

Just because GFFX is a horrid card at general DX9 operations doesn't mean the entire industry needs to go out of their way to make optimized code paths for Nvidia, while neglecting other hardware GPUs. Nvidia should make their cards as strong at general DX9 operations as they can, instead of just saying "F*ck it" and expect developers to cator to them.
2 games? i listed dozens, and they all happen to be the best selling games of all time also, STRANGE eh?

Quake had alot of diffrent paths, back in the day, there wasent just Nvidia/ATi/3dfx, there was alot of diffrent cards out there, there was paths for a whole bunch of cards that i dont rember the name of.

Unreal Torunament optmized for the Savage 3, problaly others.

You ask the question why do they make diffrent paths?

id dosent just sell the first game they name the engine after. They sell the engine to companys and they pump out dozens and dozens of games.

You cannot market an engine saying "this game only dose well on the Radeon platform" game developers will laugh at you. If you say "my new engine runs well on all video cards, hell, you can use a Voodoo1 on it" they will say "omg, lets use thsi engine"

Undead, Star Trek: Elite force, Solder of Forune, SoF2, Medal of Honor, Heavy Metal: FAKK2, Alice, Gunman..... my god, there are more out there.
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Old 06-02-03, 08:04 PM   #76
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So now 3dmark IS considered a useless benchmark.

The cycle is complete now. Nvidia got thier wish

Flawless victory.
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Old 06-02-03, 08:04 PM   #77
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So does this mean that Nvidia just created crappy drivers?

I they did not cheat than they must have just had major "bugs" in the drivers...

I still say it was a cheat and I don't think anyone is fooled buy this... this is just as bad as the quake/quack problem ati had.
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Old 06-02-03, 08:06 PM   #78
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I am so sick about NV and their BS and strongarm tactics I am EAGERLY awaiting ANY OTHER AMD manufacturer to make a decent chipset........
I am not a fan of Intel, so unfortunatley my choices are limited.
Via must get their crap together.
I want to get rid of the stank that is in my case....... the only problem is as of now they DO make the BEST chipsets for AMD....

Who would've thought I would even venture to go down the Via or Intel lane again...

babblebabblebabblebabble..........
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Old 06-02-03, 08:09 PM   #79
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Quote:
2 games? i listed dozens, and they all happen to be the best selling games of all time also, STRANGE eh?
You listed DOZENS?

Really?

Doesn't dozen[s] imply more then 1 dozen (which is 12)?

Strange.. I only see a few..


Quote:
Quake had alot of diffrent paths, back in the day, there wasent just Nvidia/ATi/3dfx, there was alot of diffrent cards out there, there was paths for a whole bunch of cards that i dont rember the name of.
Unless you have some sources to back this up, I don't believe it.

Quote:
Unreal Torunament optmized for the Savage 3, problaly others.
"Probably" doesn't cut it.

Quote:
You ask the question why do they make diffrent paths?
No, I didn't. I made a point that hardware specific optmized code paths are not often used, and if they are used, they only include one optimized code path in addition to the general API code path..

Quote:
You cannot market an engine saying "this game only dose well on the Radeon platform" game developers will laugh at you. If you say "my new engine runs well on all video cards, hell, you can use a Voodoo1 on it" they will say "omg, lets use thsi engine"
YOU JUST MADE MY POINT FOR ME!

Quote:
Undead, Star Trek: Elite force, Solder of Forune, SoF2, Medal of Honor, Heavy Metal: FAKK2, Alice, Gunman..... my god, there are more out there.
Oh really? And how many, and exactly what are the specific GPU code paths that those games use?
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Old 06-02-03, 08:11 PM   #80
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*forest gump voice*

What do I think of this responce...? It surprises me..


so far thats all I have to say about that...
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Old 06-02-03, 08:16 PM   #81
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I got a copy of Futuremarks new benchmark..

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Old 06-02-03, 08:17 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally posted by bkswaney
Well, everyone has a tail. I sit on mine.

I will stand by I think way to much was made out of the whole thing.
If compaines want to add code for Nvidia then so be it.
Same for ATI.

Also where is the real ""proof"" NV used cliping planes?
One site said they did but I find it funny no other site agreed. Such as Hardocp or anandtech.
First dibs on this statement! Yay!

Both ExtremeTech and Beyond3D acknowledged the existence of clip planes because they were the only (i.e. NO HardOCP and Anandtech) sites which had access to the developer versions of 3DMark03. Difference is Beyond3D made a quiet mention of it on their forums and notified Nvidia while ExtremeTech notified Nvidia and probably after no reply wrote a huge article about the ordeal. This was backed up by Futuremark and even in this press release they made an explicit statement regards to the type of cheat that Nvidia used, but not directly commenting onwhat Nvidia did.

Quote:
Because all modifications that change the workload in 3DMark03 are forbidden, we were obliged to update the product to eliminate the effect of optimizations identified in different drivers so that 3DMark03 continued to produce comparable results
Hrm, wonder what they are talking about there!
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Last edited by gordon151; 06-02-03 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 06-02-03, 08:18 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by reever2
So now 3dmark IS considered a useless benchmark.

The cycle is complete now. Nvidia got thier wish

Flawless victory.
You forgot the "Fatality" part
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Old 06-02-03, 08:23 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kombatant
You forgot the "Fatality" part
I would prefer Babality, and that goes for Nvidia and Futuremark, shame on both of them
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