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Old 04-22-10, 01:21 PM   #13
primerib
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Default Re: VDPAU - 8400 GS - Which one?

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Originally Posted by reklipz View Post
I own both of these (for vdpau) and have used them in an htpc environment. Both with mainboard SPDIF OUT connected to the cards so I could do audio & video over a DVI->HDMI cable.

What do you want to know exactly?
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Old 04-26-10, 11:20 AM   #14
roger1818
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Default Re: VDPAU - 8400 GS - Which one?

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Originally Posted by primerib View Post
I own both of these (for vdpau) and have used them in an htpc environment. Both with mainboard SPDIF OUT connected to the cards so I could do audio & video over a DVI->HDMI cable.

What do you want to know exactly?
I am looking for a card with the G98 chip. Apparently a 8400 can have either a G86 or G98 chip, but only the G98 has full hardware VC-1 and MPEG2 video decoding. It also has lower power consumption, dual-link DVI support and PCIe 2.0 support.

I wrote to MSI and they said the NX8400GS-TD512EH "has 8 Stream Processors. PCIE v1.1. G86 chip."

I suspect the ASUS EN8400GS SILENT/HTP/512M is similar but the GIGABYTE GV-NX84S512HP has the G98 chip but want to confirm.
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Old 04-26-10, 03:05 PM   #15
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Default Re: VDPAU - 8400 GS - Which one?

I have the asus and it identifies as g98
Code:
(--) PCI: (0:2:0:0) 14f1:8852:18ac:d618 Conexant Systems, Inc. CX23885 PCI Video and Audio Decoder rev 2, Mem @ 0xfdc00000/2097152
(--) PCI: (0:3:0:0) 14f1:8880:0070:7801 Conexant Systems, Inc. Hauppauge Inc. HDPVR-1250 model 1196 rev 15, Mem @ 0xfda00000/2097152
(--) PCI:*(0:4:0:0) 10de:06e4:1043:82bc nVidia Corporation G98 [GeForce 8400 GS] rev 161, Mem @ 0xfa000000/16777216, 0xe0000000/268435456, 0xf8000000/33554432, I/O @ 0x0000ac00/128, BIOS @ 0x????????/131072
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Old 04-26-10, 06:59 PM   #16
gradinaruvasile
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Default Re: VDPAU - 8400 GS - Which one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
I am looking for a card with the G98 chip. Apparently a 8400 can have either a G86 or G98 chip, but only the G98 has full hardware VC-1 and MPEG2 video decoding. It also has lower power consumption, dual-link DVI support and PCIe 2.0 support.

I wrote to MSI and they said the NX8400GS-TD512EH "has 8 Stream Processors. PCIE v1.1. G86 chip."

I suspect the ASUS EN8400GS SILENT/HTP/512M is similar but the GIGABYTE GV-NX84S512HP has the G98 chip but want to confirm.
Why not go for a GF 210? It is inexpensive and by default supports ALL vdpau features. I have one and it works well.

And about the PCIEx 2.0/1.1 spec: 2.0 is fully backwards compatible - i.e. a PCIEx x16 mobo works with 2.0 cards (i have one mobo with this combination) and the other way around.
So as long as you have PCIE - be it 1.1(x16) or 2.0 - mobo and PCIE video card -again, 1.1/2.0 doesnt matter - it will work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express
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Old 04-27-10, 03:32 AM   #17
cehoyos
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Default Re: VDPAU - 8400 GS - Which one?

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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
I am looking for a card with the G98 chip.
You do realise that the G98 has a problem with some H264 streams that cannot be decoded?

Carl Eugen

PS: Yes, the Asus EN8400GS Silent has a G98, and I would also recommend a G210.
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Old 04-27-10, 04:43 AM   #18
gradinaruvasile
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Default Re: VDPAU - 8400 GS - Which one?

Here are the vdpau supported cards:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_PureVideo

Note that, as cehoyos pointed out, the 8400 with g98 chip supports up to vdpau set B. This is in case that you buy a g98 (older versions might support set A, but i can tell you that its not enough). Some HD movies might not work correctly with vdpau (if at all) with older chip versions.
So, find a nice passively cooled gf 210 and you are set (i have an ASUS version with fan and its a bit noisy). You cannot go wrong with this one - it played all HD .mkv's i threw at it so far. Just make sure you get the vdpau-enablem smplayer/mplayer.
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Old 04-27-10, 10:56 AM   #19
primerib
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Default Re: VDPAU - 8400 GS - Which one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
I am looking for a card with the G98 chip. Apparently a 8400 can have either a G86 or G98 chip, but only the G98 has full hardware VC-1 and MPEG2 video decoding. It also has lower power consumption, dual-link DVI support and PCIe 2.0 support.

I wrote to MSI and they said the NX8400GS-TD512EH "has 8 Stream Processors. PCIE v1.1. G86 chip."
Whoever replied to your query from MSI should've checked their resources better. The NX8400GS-TD512EH is a G98 chip as I own it and know first-hand.

One easy way to tell if the 8400GS card you're considering is G98 is if the core clock speed is higher then 450Mhz. In the case of both the MSI NX8400GS-TD512EH and the ASUS EN8400GS SILENT/HTP/512M, the core clock speed in 567Mhz.

Here are the test results from each:

ASUS EN8400GS SILENT/HTP/512M
Quote:
NVIDIA GPU GeForce 8400 GS (G98) at PCI:2:0:0 (GPU-0)

VDPAU API version : 0
VDPAU implementation : NVIDIA VDPAU Driver Shared Library 185.18.14 Wed May 27 03:09:54 PDT 2009

SURFACE GET BITS: 816.322 M/s
SURFACE PUT BITS: 399.988 M/s

MPEG DECODING (1920x1080): 75 frames/s
MPEG DECODING (1280x720): 171 frames/s
H264 DECODING (1920x1080): 66 frames/s
H264 DECODING (1280x720): 130 frames/s
VC1 DECODING (1440x1080): 81 frames/s

MIXER WEAVE (1920x1080): 239 frames/s
MIXER BOB (1920x1080): 357 fields/s
MIXER TEMPORAL (1920x1080): 71 fields/s
MIXER TEMPORAL + SKIP_CHROMA (1920x1080): 99 fields/s
MIXER TEMPORAL_SPATIAL (1920x1080): 24 fields/s
MIXER TEMPORAL_SPATIAL + SKIP_CHROMA (1920x1080): 26 fields/s

MIXER TEMPORAL_SPATIAL (720x576 video to 1920x1080 display): 95 fields/s
MSI NX8400GS-TD512EH
Quote:
NVIDIA GPU GeForce 8400 GS (G98) at PCI:2:0:0 (GPU-0)

VDPAU API version : 0
VDPAU implementation : NVIDIA VDPAU Driver Shared Library 185.18.14 Wed May 27 03:09:54 PDT 2009

SURFACE GET BITS: 820.215 M/s
SURFACE PUT BITS: 401.124 M/s

MPEG DECODING (1920x1080): 76 frames/s
MPEG DECODING (1280x720): 171 frames/s
H264 DECODING (1920x1080): 66 frames/s
H264 DECODING (1280x720): 133 frames/s
VC1 DECODING (1440x1080): 83 frames/s

MIXER WEAVE (1920x1080): 240 frames/s
MIXER BOB (1920x1080): 360 fields/s
MIXER TEMPORAL (1920x1080): 72 fields/s
MIXER TEMPORAL + SKIP_CHROMA (1920x1080): 100 fields/s
MIXER TEMPORAL_SPATIAL (1920x1080): 24 fields/s
MIXER TEMPORAL_SPATIAL + SKIP_CHROMA (1920x1080): 26 fields/s

MIXER TEMPORAL_SPATIAL (720x576 video to 1920x1080 display): 96 fields/s
Another thing I'ld like to note is BOTH of these cards have an SPDIF IN header. While this is easily accessible on the Asus card, I had to remove the heatsink on the MSI to plug in the cable. I'll also mention that neither company advertised this feature, or could confirm the cards even have it. I took a chance since I got both cards dirt cheap. Figure if it walks, talks, and looks like an SPDIF IN -- it probably is. And I was right.
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Old 04-27-10, 11:01 AM   #20
roger1818
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Default Re: VDPAU - 8400 GS - Which one?

Thanks for all the responses. It is nice to know the ASUS has the G98 chip.

I should better explain what my needs are. I will be using it in my MythTV HTPC for playing programs recorded with an ATSC tuner so I am less concerned about H.264 and more concerned about MPEG-2. Although the streams are in HD, I will be downconverting them to SD as I don't have an HDTV yet, so I need the card to have TV-OUT (for S-VIDEO). When I get an HDTV, I can always upgrade my video card at that time.

Are there any fanless GF 210 cards with TV-OUT? All the ones I have seen have an HDMI connector instead.

I was also looking at a 9400 and a 9500 (both by Sparkle), but was told they actually aren't as good as the 8400 (and looking at the link provided by gradinaruvasile, it seems true as they only support feature set A).

Any other recommendations? Thanks again!
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Old 04-27-10, 11:09 AM   #21
roger1818
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Default Re: VDPAU - 8400 GS - Which one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by primerib View Post
Whoever replied to your query from MSI should've checked their resources better. The NX8400GS-TD512EH is a G98 chip as I own it and know first-hand.
Interesting. If you go to MSI's support page, you will see there are 2 part number for the NX8400GS-TD512EH (602-V116-040 and 602-V116-200). Maybe one has the G86 chip and the other the G98 chip (just speculation on my part).

I didn't have the part number for the one I was looking at, but I was able to provide the UPC so maybe they used that to determine the part number from that.
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Old 04-27-10, 11:18 AM   #22
cehoyos
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Default Re: VDPAU - 8400 GS - Which one?

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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
I was also looking at a 9400 and a 9500 (both by Sparkle), but was told they actually aren't as good as the 8400 (and looking at the link provided by gradinaruvasile, it seems true as they only support feature set A).
To repeat my question:
Do you realise that - apart from, imo, small advantages when decoding VC1 and MPEG1/2 - all feature set B cards have the (imo fatal) disadvantage that they do not decode some H264 streams that are decoded fine by all feature set A hardware?

Carl Eugen
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Old 04-27-10, 12:51 PM   #23
roger1818
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Default Re: VDPAU - 8400 GS - Which one?

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Originally Posted by cehoyos View Post
Do you realise that - apart from, imo, small advantages when decoding VC1 and MPEG1/2 - all feature set B cards have the (imo fatal) disadvantage that they do not decode some H264 streams that are decoded fine by all feature set A hardware?
I guess I hadn't realized that the improvements to MPEG-2 decoding were minor and figured that H264 decoding wouldn't be important to me (remember I am using this to down-convert to an analog TV)? According to Wikipedia, H264 is used for:
  • Blu-ray Disc (not applicable),
  • videos from YouTube (most videos are SD so not important),
  • videos from the iTunes Store (not applicable),
  • DVB broadcast (only in Europe, so not applicable),
  • direct-broadcast satellite television service (not applicable),
  • cable television services (not applicable), and
  • real-time videoconferencing (not applicable)

Am I missing something? Aren't all ATSC broadcasts currently encoded in MPEG-2? I know H264 was added to the standard in 2008, but I don't think anyone uses it and (IMHO) it is unlikely they will any time soon. Even if they do, the horizontal resolutions not supported are:
769-784, 849-864, 929-944, 10091024, 17931808, 18731888, 19531968 and 2033-2048
so the horizontal resolutions supported by ATSC (352, 480, 544, 704, 720, 1280, and 1920) are also supported by VP3.

Are there compelling reasons for me to want to decode H264 at one of the non supported resolutions?
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Old 04-27-10, 02:04 PM   #24
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Default Re: VDPAU - 8400 GS - Which one?

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Originally Posted by cehoyos View Post
To repeat my question:
Do you realise that - apart from, imo, small advantages when decoding VC1 and MPEG1/2 - all feature set B cards have the (imo fatal) disadvantage that they do not decode some H264 streams that are decoded fine by all feature set A hardware?

Carl Eugen
I dont know exactly the theory behind this, bit i have a Quadro NVS 135M on my laptop that supports set A and i have a 8200 on an ASUS M2N78-VM mobo that supports set B - and i can tell you that the 135M doesnt played all movies the 8200 did. And i havent seen a single movie that works on the 135M and doesnt on the 8200...
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