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Old 06-02-03, 10:42 PM   #1
Zane Krate
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Default How did NVIDIA cheat...exactly?

Really, I'm very curious as to why a lot of people here are coming to the conclusion that NVIDIA cheated in 3DMark03. Where is the proof? How about referencing a link and pointing out the exact paragraph or sentence that proves beyond any doubt that NVIDIA cheated.

And why is it that people are automatically assuming NVIDIA's press release today clearly shows that they either bought out Futuremark or they threatened them with a lawsuit? Where's the proof?
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Old 06-02-03, 10:43 PM   #2
Sazar
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I am sure you can do a search through the topics in this forum... its all right there.. from about 2 odd weeks ago
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Old 06-02-03, 10:46 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sazar
I am sure you can do a search through the topics in this forum... its all right there.. from about 2 odd weeks ago
Not really, all I see if a bunch of dolts claming NVIDIA "clearly" cheated without showing a shred of evidence, and those who do actually take the time to post a link or source simply post the Extremetech article without actually explaining what it proves.
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Old 06-02-03, 10:51 PM   #4
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sheesh... this must of been posted 10 zillion times...

3DMark03 Patch 330 Released
Fri 2003-05-23

Saratoga, California USA – May 23rd, 2003

3DMark®03 incorporates many ground breaking new features and technologies and sets the standard for easily and objectively measuring and comparing modern PCs’ 3D graphics performance. Recently, there have been questions and some confusion regarding 3DMark®03 results obtained with certain NVIDIA drivers.

We have now established that NVIDIA’s Detonator FX drivers contain certain detection mechanisms that cause an artificially high score when using 3DMark®03. We have just published a patch 330 for 3DMark03 that defeats the detection mechanisms in the drivers and provides correct results.

Download the 3DMark03 Patch 330 here:

http://www.futuremark.com/download/...3patch330.shtml

A detailed audit report of the drivers and 3DMark03 is available at:

http://www.futuremark.com/companyin...udit_report.pdf

As with all Futuremark’s benchmarks, 3DMark®03 has been created in cooperation with the major PC industry players to provide users with the best possible and most reliable set of diagnostic tools.

Futuremark is regarded as the driving force that pushes the industry to raise the bar with respect to graphics performance and features. We are committed to deliver performance analysis in an accurate, fair and consistent manner. 3DMark®03 continues in that tradition.

Additional Information Please visit http://www.futuremark.com/products/3dmark03 for additional 3DMark®03 related information. 3DMark®03 is available for free public download at http://www.futuremark.com/download/?3dmark03.shtml

About Futuremark® Corporation
Futuremark® Corporation, formerly known as MadOnion.com™, is the leading provider of computer performance analysis software and services. Futuremark® is known around the world for its benchmark products, including the 3DMark® Series and PCMark™2002 (with more than 30 million copies distributed worldwide) and value-added services powered by a database of over 5 million real life benchmarking results. Futuremark® has offices in Saratoga, California and Helsinki, Finland. For more information, please visit http://www.futuremark.com.

© 2003 Futuremark® Corporation. 3DMark® and PCMark™ trademarks and logos, Futuremark® character names and distinctive likenesses, are the exclusive property of Futuremark Corporation. DirectX® is a registered trademark of Microsoft Corporation. All other trademarks are property of their respective companies.

Company Contact:

Futuremark Corporation
Phone: +1-408-517-0131
Mr. Tero Sarkkinen
Executive Vice President of Sales and Marketing
Email: tero@futuremark.com
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Old 06-02-03, 10:52 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zane Krate
Not really, all I see if a bunch of dolts claming NVIDIA "clearly" cheated without showing a shred of evidence, and those who do actually take the time to post a link or source simply post the Extremetech article without actually explaining what it proves.
if you read some of the first threads that contain pictorial evidence as well as futuremark's original audit pdf about this... before their 'arangement' with nvidia... it is clearly shown just what they were doing...

http://www.futuremark.com/download/?3dmark03.shtml

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5856

two threads/links that you may find interesting..

it will show 'clearly' that there IS evidence... at least to what we have to now refer to as 'optimizations'
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Old 06-02-03, 10:53 PM   #6
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Futuremark and Extremetech both wrote a good bit about exactly what nVidia was cheating in. The main problem was the fact that nVidia's drivers detected certain shaders in 3DMark03 and replaced them with their own in order to make it run better on their hardware. In addition, they altered the clip planes so that less scenery was rendered, thus producing higher scores.
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Old 06-02-03, 10:53 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zane Krate
Not really, all I see if a bunch of dolts claming NVIDIA "clearly" cheated without showing a shred of evidence, and those who do actually take the time to post a link or source simply post the Extremetech article without actually explaining what it proves.
Here's ur stinkin links u worm.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1086025,00.asp

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1105259,00.asp

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5856

http://www.futuremark.com/companyinf...dit_report.pdf

Edit: How did 3 posts appear in the like minute it took me to write this!!
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Old 06-02-03, 11:05 PM   #8
Zane Krate
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Quote:
Originally posted by gordon151
Here's ur stinkin links u worm.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1086025,00.asp

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1105259,00.asp

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5856

http://www.futuremark.com/companyinf...dit_report.pdf

Edit: How did 3 posts appear in the like minute it took me to write this!!
LMAO! Are you trying to be one of those dolts by posting a link without actually explaining what it means? I've read all four of them. The first two links prove nothing, ET basically says that it appears NVIDIA is cheating but the evidence doesn't seem to clearly support that. ET also claims that ATI also wrote cheats for 3DM03. So in that case ATI AND NVIDIA are at fault.

Beyond3D is no different, they basically say something funny is going on but they can't put their finger on it (or maybe I missed something else they said in that very long thread?).

And of course FM has already recanted what they said earlier with their press release today, so I don't even know why you bother with that 4th link.

And why am I a "worm" for wanting to know how NVIDIA allegedly cheated?
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Old 06-02-03, 11:06 PM   #9
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and why are we dolts???

whatever that is..lol


the fm link is all you need. thats proof enough.
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Old 06-02-03, 11:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by jAkUp
and why are we dolts???

whatever that is..lol
LOL, not you in particular, just anyone who says NVIDIA cheated without taking at least a couple sentences to say exactly how.

For example, from what I've read so far, Zenikase's explaination looks the most possible, but just not 100% proven yet AFAICT.

Quote:
Originally posted by jAkUp
the fm link is all you need. thats proof enough.
I read that, but since they recanted it how can I take it seriously?
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Old 06-02-03, 11:14 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zane Krate
LOL, not you in particular, just anyone who says NVIDIA cheated without taking at least a couple sentences to say exactly how.

For example, from what I've read so far, Zenikase's explaination looks the most possible, but just not 100% proven yet AFAICT.



I read that, but since they recanted it how can I take it seriously?
eh don't take it personal

most of us have discussed this as best as we can already... not really the energy to seek out all the links

I'll just post a few pics from b3d...





just as an example of optimzations...

first picture is what happens when the camera goes off the rail... it is NOT supposed to happen and is a clear indication of something detecting the application and changing things around... (-edit- clipping panes)

second one is a basic showing of hackery in the shader tests...

Last edited by Sazar; 06-02-03 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 06-02-03, 11:22 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zane Krate
LMAO! Are you trying to be one of those dolts by posting a link without actually explaining what it means? I've read all four of them. The first two links prove nothing, ET basically says that it appears NVIDIA is cheating but the evidence doesn't seem to clearly support that. ET also claims that ATI also wrote cheats for 3DM03. So in that case ATI AND NVIDIA are at fault.

Beyond3D is no different, they basically say something funny is going on but they can't put their finger on it (or maybe I missed something else they said in that very long thread?).

And of course FM has already recanted what they said earlier with their press release today, so I don't even know why you bother with that 4th link.

And why am I a "worm" for wanting to know how NVIDIA allegedly cheated?
I assumed too much of your understanding to assume that by simply reading the information offered in the links you would make inferences from the information offered. Also you're a worm because obviously you've been stuck under a rock for two years, otherwise you're too lazy to read the 10 to 20 threads on the subject which have around 100 people asking this very same question to only get it subsequently answered.

Oh well, whatever let someone explain it to you. I'm done.
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