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Old 06-03-03, 12:17 AM   #13
Clockwork
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Here's your proof:

http://www.futuremark.com/companyinf...dit_report.pdf

I don't care if futuremark no longer calls it cheating. Any reasonable person can clearly see it is.
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Old 06-03-03, 12:35 AM   #14
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There are so many threads on this, I will break it up into applicable sections for you to make for some organized reading:

New Cheats (44.03 & 43.51. Note the clipping planes in 3dmark03 GT2 actually appeared in 43.45, but we didn't know that until Futuremark's audit report)
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...threadid=11786
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...threadid=12354
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...threadid=12262
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...threadid=12024
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...threadid=11826
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...6&pagenumber=2
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...threadid=11033

Old Cheats (43.45 and Older)
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...threadid=10128
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...&threadid=8487
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...6&pagenumber=3
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...&threadid=9088
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...&threadid=8614
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...&threadid=7600
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...&threadid=9302

I think that sums it up nicely. If you have any questions about what you read, feel free to ask.

Other than that, it is fairly obvious that with the "old cheats" nvidia noticeably lowered the IQ. With the "new cheats" it is obvious they did a better job of hiding their cheating. At best there are some IQ sideeffects because of the clipping planes, but otherwise the IQ looks fine to the naked eye.
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Old 06-03-03, 01:28 AM   #15
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nVIDIA didn't cheat, they optimized...get over it...
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Old 06-03-03, 02:07 AM   #16
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Default Re: How did NVIDIA cheat...exactly?

Quote:
Originally posted by Zane Krate
Where's the proof?
Non of us will ever see any proof unfortunately. Money is power and nVidia has a lot of it.
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Old 06-03-03, 06:04 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matthyahuw
nVIDIA didn't cheat, they optimized...get over it...
Cheap semantics. Here's something else Futuremark said today:
Quote:
Q: Does this mean what you called originally as "cheats" actually were acceptable "optimizations", and that you made a wrong decicion in releasing Patch 330 and the Audit Report?
A: By the definition of our benchmark and process, the optimizations are not acceptable. 3DMark scores are only comparable if drivers perform exactly the work 3DMark instructs them to do.
What is an invalid optimization? Isn't that a cheat?
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Old 06-03-03, 06:37 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zane Krate
I read that, but since they recanted it how can I take it seriously?
No, they haven't:

From Beyond3D...

Quote:
"First I must admit that there is very little I can comment about the joint statement between Futuremark and Nvidia due to legal aspects. What I can do is answer some frequently asked questions about this and quote some parts of the statement.

Please read the statement well and do not post hasty conclusion after reading only the first two paragraphs of the statement.

Q: Does this mean what you called originally as "cheats" actually were acceptable "optimizations", and that you made a wrong decicion in releasing Patch 330 and the Audit Report?
A: By the definition of our benchmark and process, the optimizations are not acceptable. 3DMark scores are only comparable if drivers perform exactly the work 3DMark instructs them to do.

The statement also says: Quote:
Because all modifications that change the workload in 3DMark03 are forbidden, we were obliged to update the product to eliminate the effect of optimizations identified in different drivers so that 3DMark03 continued to produce comparable results.


As earlier stated, we recommend using the latest build 330 of 3DMark03, with the 44.03 (or 43.51 WHQL) Nvidia drivers, or the Catalyst 3.4 ATI drivers. This way obtained 3DMark03 results are genuinely comparable as far as we know.

Q: What is the reasoning behind this statement?
A: Both companies want to end the public dispute that has been going on since we launched 3DMark03 in mid-February this year.

Q: Did NVIDIA pay you any money to make this statement?
A: No, they did not. Our companies had a mutual desire to end this dispute, and we are very pleased that we reached this agreement.

Q: Does this mean that in the future you will not make patches for 3DMark03 (or 3DMark2001) in order to reveal cheating?
A: We might release further patches to 3DMark03, if a need for preventing driver optimizations appear in the future.
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Old 06-03-03, 08:58 AM   #19
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Default Re: How did NVIDIA cheat...exactly?

Quote:
Originally posted by Zane Krate
Really, I'm very curious as to why a lot of people here are coming to the conclusion that NVIDIA cheated in 3DMark03. Where is the proof? How about referencing a link and pointing out the exact paragraph or sentence that proves beyond any doubt that NVIDIA cheated.

And why is it that people are automatically assuming NVIDIA's press release today clearly shows that they either bought out Futuremark or they threatened them with a lawsuit? Where's the proof?
How did they cheat? They made people like you think that the card was better than it was...

Proof?

You believed it and still do.
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Old 06-03-03, 09:00 AM   #20
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Default Re: How did NVIDIA cheat...exactly?

Quote:
Originally posted by Zane Krate
Where is the proof? How about referencing a link and pointing out the exact paragraph or sentence that proves beyond any doubt that NVIDIA cheated.
If you can't understand from the audit report generated by FutureMark that Nvidia was taking shortcuts in their drivers for the benchmark, and that is cheating, well then I doubt anything can change your opinion.

Of course FutureMark wouldn't, and as far as I know, never did explicitly state that Nvidia was cheating since I suspect that would have gotten them into legal troubles.

Quote:
Originally posted by Zane Krate
And why is it that people are automatically assuming NVIDIA's press release today clearly shows that they either bought out Futuremark or they threatened them with a lawsuit? Where's the proof? [/b]
Well, just where is Nvidia's press release I don't see anything in the Nvidia Press Room about this. Rather strange, considering that they have something dated June 3rd, 2003 up there. Maybe it'll be up tomorrow.

Again, if someone did provide "proof" I suspect that they would be violating the settlement agreement and that would be a "bad thing". Usually you have to sign a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) as part of the settlement. So FutureMark can't really say a whole lot about the incident so you will never get your "proof".
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Old 06-03-03, 11:33 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matthyahuw
nVIDIA didn't cheat, they optimized...get over it...
LMFAO ATi optimized and people including Futuremark considered it cheating does that change anything from what nVIDIA did? So ATi optimizes = cheat, nVIDIA 'optimizes' = no cheat, sorry you are contradicting yourself.
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Old 06-03-03, 01:50 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dazz
LMFAO ATi optimized and people including Futuremark considered it cheating does that change anything from what nVIDIA did? So ATi optimizes = cheat, nVIDIA 'optimizes' = no cheat, sorry you are contradicting yourself.
I didn't contradict myself...did you see me saying ATI cheated? Take your fanboy glasses off, what ATI did was fine by me as well, I'm all for getting better performance for nothing, no matter how it's done...
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Old 06-03-03, 02:00 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matthyahuw
I didn't contradict myself...did you see me saying ATI cheated? Take your fanboy glasses off, what ATI did was fine by me as well, I'm all for getting better performance for nothing, no matter how it's done...
Dude, "better peformance for nothing" does not mean placing a map of where you know the camera is going to go in a benchmark into your drivers. They might as well have made you a movie about 3dMark and tried to pass that off as a "performance upgrade". If they played a DVD of Star Wars Episode 2 and said "this was all rendered in real time on an FX," and you believed them, would that mean that you had just gotten a massive performance boost, or would it simply mean that you are a gullible turkey?
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Old 06-03-03, 02:22 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matthyahuw
nVIDIA didn't cheat, they optimized...get over it...

You must have forgotten the "wink" or "smiley" emoticon on the end of that statement.
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