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Old 03-30-09, 04:49 AM   #1
personman
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Default Fedora 11, Nouveau, and kernel mode-setting

It looks like the upcoming Fedora 11 is going to drop the 2d-only NV driver in favor of Nouveau with kernel mode-setting.

Testing Out The Nouveau Driver On Fedora 11

-Andy
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Old 03-30-09, 05:02 AM   #2
tzp
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Default Re: Fedora 11, Nouveau, and kernel mode-setting

Sounds interesting... but:

- The legal background of the Nouveau project is not clear to me.
Isn't reverse engineering (which they admittedly do) of the proprietary Nvidia driver illegal ?

- I wonder if the Nouveau supports CUDA and VDPAU.

Someone clever, please enlighten me...
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Old 03-30-09, 05:05 AM   #3
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Default Re: Fedora 11, Nouveau, and kernel mode-setting

(sorry, double post)
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Old 03-30-09, 05:16 AM   #4
personman
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Default Re: Fedora 11, Nouveau, and kernel mode-setting

I have no idea about legality, but if I recall correctly, the nforce networking card driver in linux is also reverse engineered, but it's been around awhile, is in every linux install, and nvidia doesn't seem to have a problem with that.

Regarding VDPAU, probably not yet, but I don't think the 2d-only nv driver they are replacing does it either. It's still early, but sounds promising.

-Andy
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Old 03-30-09, 06:47 AM   #5
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Default Re: Fedora 11, Nouveau, and kernel mode-setting

Aha, here it says:

Quote:
Granted, X-Video is not as good as VDPAU or even XvMC, but it's a start.
So X-Video this is their VDPAU implementation.
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Old 03-30-09, 07:35 AM   #6
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Default Re: Fedora 11, Nouveau, and kernel mode-setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by tzp View Post
Aha, here it says:



So X-Video this is their VDPAU implementation.
No, XV has nothing to do with VDPAU. Decoding is done fully in software, almost every X driver supports XV (even nv).
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Old 03-30-09, 08:38 AM   #7
Tux Brothers
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Default Re: Fedora 11, Nouveau, and kernel mode-setting

Sounds good the Nouveau project !
Good for everyone, we have a stable and usable driver, and nVidia has no complaining people anymore, so everyone satisfied

Cheers,
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Old 03-30-09, 08:39 AM   #8
JaXXoN
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Default Re: Fedora 11, Nouveau, and kernel mode-setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by tzp View Post
Isn't reverse engineering (which they admittedly do) of the proprietary Nvidia driver illegal ?
IANAL, but as far as i know that depends on the country you are living in.
At least i'm not aware that it would be illegal in Europe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tzp View Post
- I wonder if the Nouveau supports CUDA and VDPAU.
Observing the pace at which new products are pushed to the market,
recognizing the complexity of modern GPU and keeping in mind the
total absence of official documentation, i fear that nouveau will always
lag about five years behind the the proprietary nvidia driver.

regards

Bernhard
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Old 03-30-09, 08:53 AM   #9
JaXXoN
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Default Re: Fedora 11, Nouveau, and kernel mode-setting

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Originally Posted by personman View Post
In this video, F11 takes more than two minutes to boot up! This is completely ridiculous!

regards

Bernhard
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Old 03-30-09, 09:33 AM   #10
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Default Re: Fedora 11, Nouveau, and kernel mode-setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by tzp View Post
- The legal background of the Nouveau project is not clear to me.
Isn't reverse engineering (which they admittedly do) of the proprietary Nvidia driver illegal ?
There is a comment on that somewhere on the nouveau webpages.
IIRC, it might be illegal to disassemble the binary driver, and that's not what they do. They just observe what the driver is doing when asked to perform a particular action (like drawing something).
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Old 03-30-09, 09:45 AM   #11
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Default Re: Fedora 11, Nouveau, and kernel mode-setting

Well, unless the nvidia licence for the driver says you can't reverse engineer it then it's fine. What I've read is most of the time, it's pure luck and just probing the device.
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Old 03-30-09, 09:46 AM   #12
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Default Re: Fedora 11, Nouveau, and kernel mode-setting

Quote:
NVIDIA Corporation assumes no responsibility for the consequences of use of such information or for any infringement of patents or other rights of third parties that may result from its use. No license is granted by implication or otherwise under any patent or patent rights of NVIDIA Corporation.
If I understand this right, NVIDIA says that if you get into trouble because you break/reverse engineer/publish/etc some 3rd party related information, it's a problem between you and the 3rd party.
This might be a complicated case for lawyers, let's hope.

I agree, the FC 11 boot video is not too convincing, neither is the movie watching demo. If only they had attached some CPU load graph...
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