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Old 05-05-09, 03:07 PM   #13
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Default Re: Why DLC is the Future...

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Originally Posted by Sazar View Post
They don't charge for DLC though.

And fwiw, L4D with less content than most games has more replayability than pretty much all games out there right now.

Also, exploits exist in most games, Valve regulates its games and the biggest exploits that are submitted to the devs are fixed in a relatively timely manner.

Remember, they released the Orange Box which, in my opinion, is the greatest value in gaming, even today.
What DLC? You mean the patch they released?

The exploits in L4D was so obvious that it hurt to find out that no one bothered to fix them during play testing if they actually play tested the game throughly.

The best thing about Orange Box and the only real extra value was Portal. I love how the exclusion of any MP in Episode 2 is ignored. TF2 can be considered the MP aspect of Ep2... sure its fun but so was HLM when it released or Quake 2 DM/CFT.
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Old 05-05-09, 05:24 PM   #14
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Default Re: Why DLC is the Future...

Personally DLC is nice to have to officially expand a game but when a company *cough*capcom*cough* start charging for stuff already on the game discs it's a very hard pill to swallow. All those SF4 costumes should have been available without paying extra.
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Old 05-05-09, 05:35 PM   #15
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Default Re: Why DLC is the Future...

DLC used to be free add-ons back in the days. DLC is the easy way to make money, so no it's not the future for me... as i can clearly remember the countless maps, items, mods and TCs of old games like Quake/Quake2
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Old 05-05-09, 05:47 PM   #16
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Default Re: Why DLC is the Future...

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To be honest, I don't think it's incredibly difficult to make maps. Remember the old Quake 3 days? What about CS:S? If people are given the right tools, they themselves can create some very detailed and innovative maps.
Deathmatch levels that were basically made out of rectangles were much simpler than the levels we have now. Unless they just recycled all of the same assets for the new levels, they would need to make a ton of content to make the game look decent (high res textures, normal maps, specular maps and shaders for things that would have just had a single 256x256 texture 10 years ago).

The levels have to be tested more because players can do more (well, in most games... I don't know about CoD) and there is so much "stuff" that can be put into them that they need to be thoroughly tested and optimized for performance.

The biggest concern in Quake 3 would have been players rocket-jumping to places they shouldn't be.
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Old 05-05-09, 06:01 PM   #17
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Default Re: Why DLC is the Future...

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What DLC? You mean the patch they released?

The exploits in L4D was so obvious that it hurt to find out that no one bothered to fix them during play testing if they actually play tested the game throughly.

The best thing about Orange Box and the only real extra value was Portal. I love how the exclusion of any MP in Episode 2 is ignored. TF2 can be considered the MP aspect of Ep2... sure its fun but so was HLM when it released or Quake 2 DM/CFT.
The Left 4 Dead "DLC" is the Survival mode... which was free.

Also, the game came with 16 maps. If they didn't group them into 4 episodes I doubt anyone would be whining about lack of content.

Besides, if you don't like a game, no amount of added content or freebies is going to make you happy. For the people who actually like Valve's games, its nice to be able to buy of box of 5 excellent games for the price of one game. Its just icing on the cake when they add onto their games every 6 months without charging anything (ie unlocks and achievements for TF2)... and they even drop the prices on their games after adding to them. And if that isn't enough, they support the mod community and even sponsor mods on their own servers... for free.

Seriously, how can people complain about this stuff?
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Old 05-05-09, 07:25 PM   #18
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Default Re: Why DLC is the Future...

I don't complain about The Orange Box, but I do think people who praise it as a huge value aren't really thinking straight.

It was one 5 hour singleplayer game and another 5 hour singleplayer game, along with a multiplayer game. Altogther that is the same content amount of Halo 3 or Gears of War. It wasn't some huge bargain.

It is, however, an amazing and quality game.
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Old 05-05-09, 07:59 PM   #19
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Default Re: Why DLC is the Future...

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I don't complain about The Orange Box, but I do think people who praise it as a huge value aren't really thinking straight.

It was one 5 hour singleplayer game and another 5 hour singleplayer game, along with a multiplayer game. Altogther that is the same content amount of Halo 3 or Gears of War. It wasn't some huge bargain.

It is, however, an amazing and quality game.
The Orange Box included Half-Life 2, Episode 1, Episode 2, Lost Coast, Team Fortress 2 and Portal.

If you already had any of the games you could gift them to other people via Steam.

Also, the sheer amount of enjoyment I got out of Episode 2 and Portal were worth the money I spent. Then there's the 120 hours I've put into Team Fortress 2.

IMO, the three totally different games that were new made it a great package for fans of the series, and the inclusion of HL2, Episode 1 and Lost Coast made it an absolute bargain for anyone just getting into Half-Life.

The only thing it was missing was Half-Life: Source.
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Old 05-05-09, 08:08 PM   #20
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Default Re: Why DLC is the Future...

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The Orange Box included Half-Life 2, Episode 1, Episode 2, Lost Coast, Team Fortress 2 and Portal.

If you already had any of the games you could gift them to other people via Steam.

Also, the sheer amount of enjoyment I got out of Episode 2 and Portal were worth the money I spent. Then there's the 120 hours I've put into Team Fortress 2.

IMO, the three totally different games that were new made it a great package for fans of the series, and the inclusion of HL2, Episode 1 and Lost Coast made it an absolute bargain for anyone just getting into Half-Life.

The only thing it was missing was Half-Life: Source.
While I admit that fun = value I don't think were talking about that when mentioning value. Were talking about content and for people who already owned HL2 and EP1, there wasn't much in the form of extra content when getting the Orange Box.

Like NarcissistZero said in all it really had as much content as any other big title. L4D on the otherhand had lower then average content. No the game did not contain 16 maps thats just a foolish way to look at it. Thats like saying HL2 had 50 maps because of how the game was put together. L4D had 4 campeigns and thats it, the game gets completly repetive after so many hours of play (after 50+ Hours I only play now because my friends play).

Survivor mode should have been in from the start so its not DLC, its them completing the game... It's not like Survivor mode took them alot more work to compile, heck my friends and I play it with the normal campeign by setting the AI to constant panic and increase horde sizes.

I like L4D, I think it's a great game but it could have had alot more content for the $50 price point. HL1/2 had more content at the same price.

Anyone wana bet that Valve will be one of the first to go to a heavy DLC dependent games?
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Old 05-05-09, 08:33 PM   #21
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Default Re: Why DLC is the Future...

I'll admit that Left 4 Dead doesn't have as much content as some other games when it comes to the amount of area you can run around in, but I don't think you're being too clear on what you mean by "value" if we aren't talking about the amount of enjoyment one can get out of a game.

There are plenty of people putting hundreds of hours into just about any decent game and no one person (that includes you or me ) is the barometer for how much "fun" a game has in it.

Value is subjective. Games don't have any "value" at all unless we're enjoying them. I'd rather have a $50 game I can enjoy for 50 hours than a game that is a 500 hour waste of time designed to keep me playing, not to keep me happy (ie an MMO). Heck, I'd rather have a game I can enjoy for 5 hours than an MMO for the same price... but that's just me.

I understand where you guys are coming from, I just don't feel the same way.
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Old 05-05-09, 08:42 PM   #22
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Default Re: Why DLC is the Future...

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The Orange Box included Half-Life 2, Episode 1, Episode 2, Lost Coast, Team Fortress 2 and Portal.
Any PC gamer interested in HL2 and such owned them WAY before The Orange Box came out. For the average PC gamer it wasn't really a bargain.

I'm not against the game, it was worth $50 and quite fun, it just wasn't the mega deal people claim it was for most PC gamers.
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Old 05-06-09, 10:09 AM   #23
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Default Re: Why DLC is the Future...

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lol 2 million console gamers paid $10 for 4 maps...
and they keep saying that console people are Intelligent .
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Old 05-06-09, 10:18 AM   #24
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and they keep saying that console people are Intelligent .
Yes because there are so many other alternatives to getting more maps on consoles. The mapping community is so large those idiots just don't know how to download and install them.

When the only way you can expand a game is through paid DLC then your pretty much SOL. Im sure if valve never released the SDK for L4D and only provided paid campiegns and maps for vs mode they would sell just as good. Wonderful thing about L4D and other valve products, is that its a pretty much closed system that only works with official supported sdk built maps/mods. Any "hacks" are considered illegal and make it hard to play online with and could possibly get you banned even if they are just models/maps when they fail the checksum.

Their have been plenty of model and skin mods for L4D already, no one uses them because the game can't be played on VAC enabled servers with them installed.
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