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Old 05-13-09, 08:49 PM   #1
x0rcis7
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Default Visual Studio 2008 & .NET

I recently received a book on visual studio 2008 and after reading the first few chapters, I realize it says that compiled programs require the .Net framework. Im wanting to learn a programming language but from what it seems, learning visual basic would be a Complete Waste of time since it requires .Net. Is there anyway to create a project without the need of .Net. Why would someone want to waste this valuable time on VB when learning C++ would be 10x more beneficial? Thus said, should I forgot about VB and start with C++ since compiled projects can be distributed to any and all computers and work fine?
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Old 05-13-09, 09:04 PM   #2
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Default Re: Visual Studio 2008 & .NET

Well .NET is on every windows pc with XP or higher, and it used by a lot of programs. Since Windows is about 90% of the market, that may be a reason to use it.

http://www.tuaw.com/2009/01/02/apple...ince-tracking/
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Old 05-13-09, 09:59 PM   #3
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Default Re: Visual Studio 2008 & .NET

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bman212121 View Post
Well .NET is on every windows pc with XP or higher, and it used by a lot of programs. Since Windows is about 90% of the market, that may be a reason to use it.

http://www.tuaw.com/2009/01/02/apple...ince-tracking/
+1

A lot of programs use the .NET framework.
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Old 05-13-09, 11:26 PM   #4
x0rcis7
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Default Re: Visual Studio 2008 & .NET

not every windows xp comes with .net ... thats actually an optional download when you go to windows update. Also there are not a lot of programs that use it. so basically c++ is the way to go then? Delphi would even be a better choice than VB is what it seems.. And why would I want to care 90% of everyone uses windows when I can code in C++ and not have to worry about an OS at all?
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Old 05-14-09, 09:58 AM   #5
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Default Re: Visual Studio 2008 & .NET

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90% of everyone uses windows when I can code in C++ and not have to worry about an OS at all?
That's funny. No matter what language or framework you use, you are at the mercy of what OS you are trying to write for. The only way you can write a program and not care about the OS is JAVA.

I mean you could write a whole OS to do all the hardware interaction yourself so it will work on any computer... oh wait no I don't think you want to do that.

Screw VB, C# is the way to go.
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Old 05-14-09, 11:31 AM   #6
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Default Re: Visual Studio 2008 & .NET

Ha, i already know this... for you guys having so much 'experience' you dont seem to be at all convincing. I'm going to go with C; thanks anyways
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Old 05-14-09, 03:57 PM   #7
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Default Re: Visual Studio 2008 & .NET

You seem to have no idea what you are shooting for anyways. Different languages are tailored for different things.

"I want to code!"... is great and all, but code what? Programming is NOT about what language you pick more so than learning how to think and problem solve. Learning how a language works is what google and books are for. Basic concepts Like OO design is something you can bring with you language to language.

With .NET you will be able to actually have tangible results quicker than you could with C++. With C++ you have to do A LOT of plumbing work to do anything, where as C#, the framework does a lot of it for you.

I would also NOT start with straight C unless you are going to be doing embedded programming. C++ is the better place to start if you would rather not learn a framework language like .NET or JAVA.
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Old 05-14-09, 04:34 PM   #8
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Default Re: Visual Studio 2008 & .NET

The .net framework has come a long way in a very short time. I love it!
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Old 05-15-09, 01:26 AM   #9
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Default Re: Visual Studio 2008 & .NET

Actually .NET is avalible for linux under monoproject.


Though I don't believe anyone answered the OP's original question.

You need to make a new unmanaged c++ project - the compiled executable will not work cross OS, but if you follow standard ISO/ANSI C++, all you will have to do is recompile it in GCC in linux.


And I highly recommend learning C# - its pretty much the language of choice for any general application.
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Old 05-15-09, 09:17 AM   #10
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Default Re: Visual Studio 2008 & .NET

Quote:
Originally Posted by x0rcis7 View Post
I recently received a book on visual studio 2008 and after reading the first few chapters, I realize it says that compiled programs require the .Net framework. Im wanting to learn a programming language but from what it seems, learning visual basic would be a Complete Waste of time since it requires .Net. Is there anyway to create a project without the need of .Net. Why would someone want to waste this valuable time on VB when learning C++ would be 10x more beneficial? Thus said, should I forgot about VB and start with C++ since compiled projects can be distributed to any and all computers and work fine?
I recommend to start with C#. It's a good structured language, and it has few differences with Java (you will learn both, that is the advantage with C#). With Java, you need to install the Java Virtual Machine, and with .NET you need to install the .NET Framework (The mono framework for linux works pretty well today). You could start with C++, but, it needs more complex/advanced OOP concepts (plus the manual memory management) that you will learn with C# easily. C++ is powerful and a standard in the industry, no doubt about this, but, developing projects with C# is easy & fast, and the performance isn't bad. It's a more productive language.
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Old 05-16-09, 05:48 PM   #11
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Default Re: Visual Studio 2008 & .NET

Quote:
Originally Posted by x0rcis7 View Post
I recently received a book on visual studio 2008 and after reading the first few chapters, I realize it says that compiled programs require the .Net framework. Im wanting to learn a programming language but from what it seems, learning visual basic would be a Complete Waste of time since it requires .Net. Is there anyway to create a project without the need of .Net. Why would someone want to waste this valuable time on VB when learning C++ would be 10x more beneficial? Thus said, should I forgot about VB and start with C++ since compiled projects can be distributed to any and all computers and work fine?
1) "Compiled programs require the .Net framework" is false, and really makes no sense. A compiler translates source code from one language into another. Whether the resulting code requires the .net framework is a completely separate issue.

2) Visual Basic does not require .Net, please try again.

3) If you are totally opposed to using the .Net framework, I would be curious as to why you bought a bloody book on it?

4) Learning C++ may or may not be more beneficial than learning Visual Basic. FYI managed C++ *does* run on the .Net platform, but most people don't consider it true C++.

5) Compiled C++ programs obviously will *not* work on any possible computer. You are terribly confused here. Computer programs with perfectly portable code can potentially be re-compiled for a platform and then *may* work properly. That is much different from distributing the binary and expecting it to work on one of the many architectures/platforms out there. Java has a "write once, run everywhere" motto which is partially true, so maybe you could look into Java development if that's really what you want. FYI Mono provides a .Net implementation for Linux.
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Old 05-16-09, 08:53 PM   #12
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Default Re: Visual Studio 2008 & .NET

Quote:
I recently received a book on visual studio 2008 and after reading the first few chapters, I realize it says that compiled programs require the .Net framework.
Did you read the book well?

Your cody only needs to link against .NET components if you actually use any in your code, otherwise... no

Quote:
Im wanting to learn a programming language but from what it seems, learning visual basic would be a Complete Waste of time since it requires .Net
Why would it be a waste? I'm mainly a C/C++ programmer, but if a given company pays me to develop an application in Visual Basic, why not? it depends on your purpose, but for me, I just prefer to use the right tool for the right job.

Visual Basic lets you build quite robust applications with database access and other kind of components with ease, that's what I mainly use for developing business applications. In the other hand, if I would like to create something like a game, I would use C/C++, but it's just a matter of taste.

Not any single programming language is a waste of time or resources, they're designed with different things in mind to satisfy different purposes... so, as I said before, it's just about to use the right tool for the right job.

Quote:
Is there anyway to create a project without the need of .Net
New -> Project -> Win32 -> Win32 Console Project (in Visual C++ 2008 Express Edition)

Seems to me like the simplest way of creating an empty project

Quote:
Thus said, should I forgot about VB and start with C++ since compiled projects can be distributed to any and all computers and work fine?
Like Absolution said, if you write your code in a portable way, relying on ISO/ANSI C/C++, you can port your code from Windows to other platforms.

As a personal advice, don't go with C++ directly, instead go to C first, learn the basics, how to declare variables, operators, pointers, structures, functions, and when you're proficient enough with it (we all started doing printf's before being able to develop something bigger), learn about C++, methods, attributes, classes, just step by step

(but it's just an advice)
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