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Old 07-21-09, 08:37 PM   #1
Armed_Baboon
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Default Why DirectX 11 will save the video card industry and why you don't care

great article.

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...dont-care.aspx
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Old 07-21-09, 09:36 PM   #2
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Default Re: Why DirectX 11 will save the video card industry and why you don't care

That was a great article and very long, sorta painted a doomsday for the industry tho, which i do sorta agree with. To sum up the article the industry is milking this current gen of hardware/software to an extreme so much that its killing itself.

We really need a big bang in the industry, everyone here has been waiting for it, anxiously reading bits of info about in development api's and game engines hoping to hear some big upgrade but we have only gotten incremental improvements with a hefty price tag, Its just not worth it atm, and all signs say its going to get worse.
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Old 07-21-09, 10:49 PM   #3
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Default Re: Why DirectX 11 will save the video card industry and why you don't care

I don't think this generation lasting longer is going to kill anybody... true, at some point we need new hardware and games that take advantage of it or else sales will plummet, but that is a long ways off.
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Old 07-21-09, 11:39 PM   #4
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Default Re: Why DirectX 11 will save the video card industry and why you don't care

intel has a big game changer within the next year or so. It will be interesting how it affects the market if at all. I'm curious how they will play their cards.
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Old 07-22-09, 12:30 AM   #5
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Default Re: Why DirectX 11 will save the video card industry and why you don't care

I don't think anybody has really identified the problem.

The real problem is that in spite of all of these huge improvements to hardware and software technology to improve the realism of games, not very much at all has been done to make it easier for the artists to create their artwork with quality and complexity to make proper use of the technology.

Or rather, the technology that facilitates really good artwork is accelerating much faster than the tools for creating that artwork. The result is that it costs way too much money and takes way too much time to create the game content itself once the underlying hardware and game engines have been created.

This problem isn't unique to PC's either, and it is solvable. The problem is software used to create 3d artwork is unintuitive and sh*tty to put it bluntly. It worked ok for oldschool box modeling that worked for low poly count game engines, but not anymore. Something better needs to come around that makes it almost as straight forward as picking up a paintbrush and canvas.
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Old 07-22-09, 01:35 AM   #6
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Default Re: Why DirectX 11 will save the video card industry and why you don't care

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK View Post
The problem is software used to create 3d artwork is unintuitive and sh*tty to put it bluntly. It worked ok for oldschool box modeling that worked for low poly count game engines, but not anymore. Something better needs to come around that makes it almost as straight forward as picking up a paintbrush and canvas.
good point. I totally agree. In an idea world we could a 3d scanner (existing technology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_scanner ) to just go out to a landscape and map it straight into a game engine. All the models and all the textures would be uploaded in half an hour and would save years of game development time - need a tropical island setting? go to Tahiti for a day and come back with all the content you need for your game. Think of the modding applications!
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Old 07-22-09, 10:14 AM   #7
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Default Re: Why DirectX 11 will save the video card industry and why you don't care

NV, AMD and Intel are spending billions of dollars for hardware and technologies while there are no games ( that developing costs are in millions not in billions) what makes this wonderful hardware and technology useless. Nintendo, Sony and MS are fighting for developers antention, buying studios, buying games exclusivity just to make their hardware more atractive for potential buyers, games like Forza, GT are system sellers. You can't sell any technology without strong reason to use it.

BTW Lets be honest DX8.0 was made for Xbox and DX10 is made for Xbox 360 and maybe DX11 will be made for their successor.
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Old 07-23-09, 01:46 AM   #8
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Default Re: Why DirectX 11 will save the video card industry and why you don't care

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NV, AMD and Intel are spending billions of dollars for hardware and technologies while there are no games ( that developing costs are in millions not in billions) what makes this wonderful hardware and technology useless. Nintendo, Sony and MS are fighting for developers antention, buying studios, buying games exclusivity just to make their hardware more atractive for potential buyers, games like Forza, GT are system sellers. You can't sell any technology without strong reason to use it.

BTW Lets be honest DX8.0 was made for Xbox and DX10 is made for Xbox 360 and maybe DX11 will be made for their successor.

really, that's interesting. dx 8.0 was specc'd long before xbox was a twinkle in Microsoft's eye, and the 360 doesn't meet DX10 spec. what's that again?

the lack of games I agree with. however, make no mistake, the consoles began feeding off the videocard industry, not the other way around. technology is sold for minor markets as well as major. if anything, the minor niches drive the larger industry. how big do you think the high end dx8 videocard industry was? dx7? dx6? TINY

dx9? TINY
dx10? you get it right?

the tech filters down to larger segments; high-end exists for/as a proof of concept, initial recoup of R&D, and halo effect.
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Old 07-23-09, 04:00 AM   #9
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Default Re: Why DirectX 11 will save the video card industry and why you don't care

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really, that's interesting. dx 8.0 was specc'd long before xbox was a twinkle in Microsoft's eye, and the 360 doesn't meet DX10 spec. what's that again?

the lack of games I agree with. however, make no mistake, the consoles began feeding off the videocard industry, not the other way around. technology is sold for minor markets as well as major. if anything, the minor niches drive the larger industry. how big do you think the high end dx8 videocard industry was? dx7? dx6? TINY

dx9? TINY
dx10? you get it right?

the tech filters down to larger segments; high-end exists for/as a proof of concept, initial recoup of R&D, and halo effect.
I meant DX 8.1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX

Feeding off? What's that mean? ( can't find it in my translator ;p ) I don't get it.
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Old 07-23-09, 11:27 AM   #10
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Default Re: Why DirectX 11 will save the video card industry and why you don't care

I don't think it has anything to do with consoles or PCs, it has to do with diminishing returns. Years ago when developers added different effects like volumetric lighting, real-time shadows, etc... it made a huge difference in what you saw visually. Now, as stated above, we're having difficulty even seeing the difference between a DX9 and DX10 rendered game.

So basically, developers can try to push that envelope and spend weeks/years making an engine that can render the world to perfection, but the fact that the games today are already so close, the return on that work isn't really there. Games all look great today, and they will look great tomorrow - they may not look (or need to look) that drastically different.

Additionally, there's always the famous 'uncanny valley' we have to worry about. Games look good today, but they look animated - the closer they get to the 'real world' the more they'll look fake to us, and that will make games worse rather than better.
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Old 07-23-09, 02:17 PM   #11
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Default Re: Why DirectX 11 will save the video card industry and why you don't care

^
games dont look anywhere NEAR cg movies.
So there is a whole lot more to add to the graphics that will make it look much better.

When I see games with cg graphics and animations then I will be satisfied..... maybe
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Old 07-23-09, 04:09 PM   #12
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Default Re: Why DirectX 11 will save the video card industry and why you don't care

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaguya View Post
I don't think it has anything to do with consoles or PCs, it has to do with diminishing returns. Years ago when developers added different effects like volumetric lighting, real-time shadows, etc... it made a huge difference in what you saw visually. Now, as stated above, we're having difficulty even seeing the difference between a DX9 and DX10 rendered game.

So basically, developers can try to push that envelope and spend weeks/years making an engine that can render the world to perfection, but the fact that the games today are already so close, the return on that work isn't really there. Games all look great today, and they will look great tomorrow - they may not look (or need to look) that drastically different.

Additionally, there's always the famous 'uncanny valley' we have to worry about. Games look good today, but they look animated - the closer they get to the 'real world' the more they'll look fake to us, and that will make games worse rather than better.
Games that try to look as realistic as possible tend to look amazing to me... Crysis, Assassin's Creed, Call of Juarez... games set in real locales should always strive to look as real as possible, while games in fantasy locales should look more artistically interesting.

I think the "uncanny valley" theory is mostly bull... games are a long ways from looking like real life, and when they do that will be AWESOME, if you ask me.

Every generation there are groups of people who act like we have reached the point where more graphics advancement isn't needed, but inevitably a new generation starts that makes those games look like crap. Playing Red Dead Revolver and then playing Call of Juarez shows you we have made tremendous advancements, but also tells you there is much more we can do.
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