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Old 07-23-09, 04:14 PM   #13
Mike89
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Default Re: Why DirectX 11 will save the video card industry and why you don't care

Because of games now being made for consoles first (which is about 99% of them), upgrading is not as important as it once was. For the most part now, all games run very well on a decent computer. I see it staying this way for quite some time as fewer and fewer game makers are going to bother making games for PC first. The money isn't there for them and they have to eat too. Good for us in a way as we don't have to spend as much money in a given time period on upgrades. For me games look pretty good right now for the most part and as long as they are fun to play, I will continue to play them. I've been one of the ones who didn't jump on the Vista/DX10 bandwagon and to this day don't feel I've missed a thing swimming upstream from the Vista flow. I don't think much is going to change in the next couple of years from now, and I probably could still be saying the same thing as far as game playing goes then (though I do plan on Windows 7 64 bit at some time in the future). DX 11? Right now I'm one of the ones who doesn't care. From the dud I've seen with DX10, I don't expect much more any time soon (and by soon I mean at least in the next couple of years). I'm not complaining as I'm enjoying the games I buy and play and as long as that remains, I'm good to go. If I can save some money not having to upgrade hardware for a couple or years, so much the better.
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Old 07-23-09, 04:17 PM   #14
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Default Re: Why DirectX 11 will save the video card industry and why you don't care

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Originally Posted by Badboy_12345 View Post
^
games dont look anywhere NEAR cg movies.
So there is a whole lot more to add to the graphics that will make it look much better.

When I see games with cg graphics and animations then I will be satisfied..... maybe
Yeah but none of that requires DX10/11 to achieve... just better hardware performance. I mean look at the jump between Half-Life 2 and Crysis... put them both on DX9 and the difference is the engine and how much horsepower it requires... not the API.

We need improvements in efficiency and hardware performance... not software that very little people would ever use.
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Old 07-23-09, 04:29 PM   #15
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Default Re: Why DirectX 11 will save the video card industry and why you don't care

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Originally Posted by |MaguS| View Post
Yeah but none of that requires DX10/11 to achieve... just better hardware performance. I mean look at the jump between Half-Life 2 and Crysis... put them both on DX9 and the difference is the engine and how much horsepower it requires... not the API.

We need improvements in efficiency and hardware performance... not software that very little people would ever use.
You can have a donkey ( powerfull hardware) but it won't go to sell place without man that put rope on his neck and tug him. And this man- developers and the rope- games.

Example. Quad cores are here for few years but I never mind to buy one but now there is GTA IV that really like to use Quad Cores and now I'm thinking more about buying it, but one game is still not enough for me.

I noticed this when 8800GTX came out. Not many people had it and not many willing to buy it but after Crysis realease many people bought it.
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Old 07-23-09, 05:00 PM   #16
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Default Re: Why DirectX 11 will save the video card industry and why you don't care

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Originally Posted by Badboy_12345 View Post
^
games dont look anywhere NEAR cg movies.
So there is a whole lot more to add to the graphics that will make it look much better.

When I see games with cg graphics and animations then I will be satisfied..... maybe
You're wrong, and here's a very good example:







And yes, those are ingame, no fake screens or photoshop. The scene is rendered in realtime using Cryengine2
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Old 07-23-09, 05:48 PM   #17
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Default Re: Why DirectX 11 will save the video card industry and why you don't care

Those screens were rendered in engine, yes, but you couldn't play that sort of graphical quality at any sort of frame rate, hell you'd be lucky to get 5fps.

On a side note - the amount of effort needed to get that level of detail and that level of attention to detail is collosal, and its more than game developers are prepaired to do if you want any sort of large scale games (i'm talking morrowing, oblivion scale).

Large games with handcrafted detail of that level is impossible, you'd need a task force of more than a thousand artists, this is the true edge of gaming technology and its the artists which are holding everything back.
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Old 07-23-09, 05:58 PM   #18
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Default Re: Why DirectX 11 will save the video card industry and why you don't care

Quote:
Originally Posted by Badboy_12345 View Post
^
games dont look anywhere NEAR cg movies.
So there is a whole lot more to add to the graphics that will make it look much better.

When I see games with cg graphics and animations then I will be satisfied..... maybe
I still think that there are diminishing returns for effort versus outcome... I'm sure there are significant improvements yet to come, but I think said improvements will be farther and farther apart...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheANIMAL
Large games with handcrafted detail of that level is impossible, you'd need a task force of more than a thousand artists, this is the true edge of gaming technology and its the artists which are holding everything back.
If this is the case, then I would have to agree with some who stated that the next wave of graphical improvements should be focused on the developers and making rendering easier and faster.
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Old 07-23-09, 08:48 PM   #19
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Default Re: Why DirectX 11 will save the video card industry and why you don't care

Excellent article. I think the author is right on probably every point, but one thing I think he missed is that the learning curve for post-SM3 hardware has grown immensely. Outside of the insane resources needed purely on a content level (GTA4 cost some 100 million to make), making believable graphics is now as much a research issue as it is pure graphical power demand. Even today, developers are still finding new ways to use the 4 year old hardware in the 360. SSAO is still relatively new, and the tessellation unit is almost wholly unused, for two examples. But then, neither is a mind-blowing 'must have' feature.

I'm kind of hoping id tech 5 breaks the mold somewhat. Variety could go a lot further than new shader models to make believable worlds over the next few years.
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Old 07-23-09, 10:21 PM   #20
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Default Re: Why DirectX 11 will save the video card industry and why you don't care

Those Blade Runner screens are proof enough we need to keep moving forward and making games look better, if you ask me. Nothing on Xbox looks like that, or anywhere near that... bring on the next generation I say.
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Old 07-23-09, 11:25 PM   #21
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Default Re: Why DirectX 11 will save the video card industry and why you don't care

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Originally Posted by TheANIMAL View Post
Those screens were rendered in engine, yes, but you couldn't play that sort of graphical quality at any sort of frame rate, hell you'd be lucky to get 5fps.

On a side note - the amount of effort needed to get that level of detail and that level of attention to detail is collosal, and its more than game developers are prepaired to do if you want any sort of large scale games (i'm talking morrowing, oblivion scale).

Large games with handcrafted detail of that level is impossible, you'd need a task force of more than a thousand artists, this is the true edge of gaming technology and its the artists which are holding everything back.
ugh really? why? why 5fps? you pulled that out of your bum, friend. that scene is fully playable. shaders and polygonal budget are nothing special. and it is a fixed scene. check developers, they said around 20fps with mid range hardware (AFAIR...check up, but it is certainly playable).
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Old 07-23-09, 11:28 PM   #22
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Default Re: Why DirectX 11 will save the video card industry and why you don't care

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I meant DX 8.1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX

Feeding off? What's that mean? ( can't find it in my translator ;p ) I don't get it.
meant that pc hardware gets filtered down to direct x class console hardware. logical extension of this is that consoles don't dictate direct x spec, rather pc hardware does. that may be changing in the future, and i'm sure microsoft is taking into account consoles with direct x 9 and up (if not earlier), but I'm also not sure that there is anything special to take into account. direct x 9 is turing complete; future specs just make certain logical leaps forward, like enhanced thread scheduling, arbitrarily raising command length limits, improving dual precision support (the latter is not for consoles or games), and down the road accelerating ray tracing and ray casting trees.
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Old 07-23-09, 11:31 PM   #23
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Default Re: Why DirectX 11 will save the video card industry and why you don't care

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Originally Posted by |MaguS| View Post
Yeah but none of that requires DX10/11 to achieve... just better hardware performance. I mean look at the jump between Half-Life 2 and Crysis... put them both on DX9 and the difference is the engine and how much horsepower it requires... not the API.

We need improvements in efficiency and hardware performance... not software that very little people would ever use.
really. so you think you can achieve photorealistic graphics with direct x 9.0 because Crysis has some good effects? is crysis LIFE friend? direct x 9.0 will certainly give you some nice graphics, but it apparently isn't flexible enough to satiate even xbox360 class hardware. direct x 9.0 at the very least restricts shader complexity far too much for cg-quality rasterization. it also makes no provisions for accelerating ray-casting, so physically accurate lighting will not be possible on direct x 9.0 spec (including photon-mapping).

where do you get this stuff from? be honest, you don't know do you?

even crysis needs greater than direct x 9.0 spec constant vertex register size. crysis uses ~280 registers for its object based motion blur on certain characters (aliens) wheareas direct x 9.0 allows for only 256. so BAM! (futurama fans!) you're wrong bud, direct x 9.0 does not give you all that you need, even for 2007 graphics. read up. the internet is too big a place to spew poorly researched information.
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Old 07-23-09, 11:46 PM   #24
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Default Re: Why DirectX 11 will save the video card industry and why you don't care

MS is in their normal 'odd number' cycle. DX7 & DX9 were good. DX8 and DX10 basically sucked. DX11 should be good if history holds true.

Win 7 should be another odd-number winner.
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