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Old 07-27-09, 09:04 PM   #13
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Default Re: F U Carmack!

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Originally Posted by NarcissistZero View Post
I don't think he said that, I think it's more hyperbole from the writer... if the PC version is "cut" then so is the 360 version, I would imagine, as it is also on DVD.

I am sure the writer was referencing the need to have the game fit on DVDs for the Xbox, and not as in the PC version getting a different "cut" version.
I remember reading about how the game is too large for two DVDs (due to megatextures) yet the game world cannot be split more than two ways because of how it is built.

I can understand doing it for the Xbox because the games load directly from the disks, but I wouldn't mind installing off of 3 DVDs for the PC version. I don't care. I just want the best version of the game. That's why I play PC games and spend thousands on hardware.

If they cut the PC version exactly like the 360 version, they're going to piss off a lot of people.

I think you're probably right that this is mostly just the views of a writer that wants more hits on his site.
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Old 07-27-09, 09:11 PM   #14
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Default Re: F U Carmack!

Again with the controller vs. mouse issue?

Jeebus... give it a rest people. They are mostly using the controller in-house in order to make sure that the game feels right when played on a console. It doesn't mean in any way that PC controls are going to get shafted.

I for one salute them for this approach, and I'm sure both versions will be equally good.

/thread.
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Old 07-27-09, 09:25 PM   #15
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Default Re: F U Carmack!

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Again with the controller vs. mouse issue?

Jeebus... give it a rest people. They are mostly using the controller in-house in order to make sure that the game feels right when played on a console. It doesn't mean in any way that PC controls are going to get shafted.

I for one salute them for this approach, and I'm sure both versions will be equally good.

/thread.
I think people are more concerned with the statement that the PC version will be "Cut" in some way to accommodate two DVDs, where as the Blu-Ray PS3 version will not need to be cut.

Its most likely FUD, but its a legitimate concern for PC users IMO.
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Old 07-27-09, 10:08 PM   #16
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Default Re: F U Carmack!

I hope mouse works well. I never did get dead space due to the control issue, so I'd hate to see something similar with this. I used to rock back in the day with an SNES controller, but being I've been on PC since then I can't do jack with an XBOX controller. Its pathetic really. Seems I better get used to the game pad again.
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Old 07-27-09, 10:28 PM   #17
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Default Re: F U Carmack!

The problem is MS, they're not helping the PC gaming situation with the xcrap360, and their lack of pc games support, if we all moved away from Windows OS, MS would change their tune rather quickly... go Google OS...
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Old 07-27-09, 10:46 PM   #18
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Default Re: F U Carmack!

for me the issue is more that he is unashamedly developing for consoles primarily because "that is where the market is going".

When Wolf 3D came out there was no FPS PC market, and that didn't stop him then.

It just says he is done being a technology innovator and now he just wants to run a profitable business.

That's his right of course, but it's also our right to only buy innovative, cutting edge games that support the PC gaming industry - like Stalker and Crysis and Empire Total War.

And another thing... if anyone thinks that id won't make design decisions specifically to make the game better on a console - for a person sitting a couple of metres away from a TV - then they are deluded.

There will be alot of aspects of the game that will be more suited to the console.
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Old 07-27-09, 11:04 PM   #19
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Default Re: F U Carmack!

Carmack just did a complete 360 on the pc (pun intended). Amazing from a guy who once loathed consoles and was the biggest pc supporter. I hope they don't mess up the mouse/keyboard controls for the fps parts and make it console controller friendly ala Killzone. I also hope they don't cut down the game for the pc. Put it on bluray. By the time the game comes out, BR drives should be less than $50 and should be more mainstream on Windows 7 pcs.
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Old 07-27-09, 11:09 PM   #20
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Default Re: F U Carmack!

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Originally Posted by Armed_Baboon View Post
for me the issue is more that he is unashamedly developing for consoles primarily because "that is where the market is going".

When Wolf 3D came out there was no FPS PC market, and that didn't stop him then.

It just says he is done being a technology innovator and now he just wants to run a profitable business.

That's his right of course, but it's also our right to only buy innovative, cutting edge games that support the PC gaming industry - like Stalker and Crysis and Empire Total War.

And another thing... if anyone thinks that id won't make design decisions specifically to make the game better on a console - for a person sitting a couple of metres away from a TV - then they are deluded.

There will be alot of aspects of the game that will be more suited to the console.
Are you kidding man? He's not the jesus of PC gaming, he's a business man. And it's not really up to him. What do you think his publisher would say if he were to propose a $30M PC-only game? We should be glad that the products he will be releasing from now on will run wonderfully on PC's, and that in some cases (Doom4) should have graphical improvements over their console brethren.

I would love to see a resurgence of the PC as the dominant platform for most games (fighting not included), but it's certainly not Carmack's fault the market is moving more and more towards consoles. He has done as much or more for the PC as any developer out there, and this is his FIRST console title (other than the late Doom 3 porting to Xbox).
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Old 07-27-09, 11:11 PM   #21
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Default Re: F U Carmack!

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Originally Posted by sillyeagle View Post
I hope mouse works well. I never did get dead space due to the control issue, so I'd hate to see something similar with this. I used to rock back in the day with an SNES controller, but being I've been on PC since then I can't do jack with an XBOX controller. Its pathetic really. Seems I better get used to the game pad again.
I agree, I hope that mouse is supported well in rage (as should the keyboard, for hotkeys, etc), but about dead space:

Dead Space has fine mouse control as long as you vsync it to your refresh, and that it doesn't drop below 40-50 frames. That's a pain in the ass, but considering how fast the game runs on mid-level hardware shouldn't be much of a problem
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Old 07-28-09, 12:28 AM   #22
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Default Re: F U Carmack!

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Originally Posted by sillyeagle View Post
I hope mouse works well. I never did get dead space due to the control issue, so I'd hate to see something similar with this. I used to rock back in the day with an SNES controller, but being I've been on PC since then I can't do jack with an XBOX controller. Its pathetic really. Seems I better get used to the game pad again.
Dead Space controlled really well with a mouse once you tweaked some things, both in menus and the ini file. Game is amazing, you need to get it.
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Old 07-28-09, 12:35 AM   #23
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Default Re: F U Carmack!

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Originally Posted by Armed_Baboon View Post
for me the issue is more that he is unashamedly developing for consoles primarily because "that is where the market is going".

When Wolf 3D came out there was no FPS PC market, and that didn't stop him then.

It just says he is done being a technology innovator and now he just wants to run a profitable business.

That's his right of course, but it's also our right to only buy innovative, cutting edge games that support the PC gaming industry - like Stalker and Crysis and Empire Total War.

And another thing... if anyone thinks that id won't make design decisions specifically to make the game better on a console - for a person sitting a couple of metres away from a TV - then they are deluded.

There will be alot of aspects of the game that will be more suited to the console.
So if you owned a business and 80% of your customers liked one service, and 20% the other, you would concentrate on the the 20%?

There are many developers and games that are built on the PC for the PC due to a loyalty to PC games, or a control scheme issue, but they are mostly independent and lower budget. You can't expect iD to spend millions and millions of dollars on a new engine, game and technology, but make it for a small fraction of their market.

I wish PC gaming was still a focus. I wish people would flood back to PC gaming and we could see more epic RPGs, fast-paced FPS shooters and simulated racers, all of which having immense enviornments, high-res textures, and other PC-centered attributes... I wish games like Morrowind and Deus Ex were still popular, rather than their downgraded modern counterparts... but the simple fact is developers need to make money to survive and make more games, and the money is on consoles.

PERIOD.

The desire for loyalty above all else from people spending millions on these projects is INSANE... get over it... be realistic.

I am sure these interviews are geared toward a certain purpose, which is to ensure the gaming press and console gamers that this game will be console friendly. iD is a PC company in most people's minds, so they are doing a PR push to make sure console-focused media pays attention to Rage. This makes it seem like the game is more console-focused than it probably is... also, the press seems to be twisting things. Have you looked at the article to see what is actually a quote? VERY little is. It is FUD.

So calm down. Rage will be amazing, and will surely run better and look better on PC.
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Old 07-28-09, 12:49 AM   #24
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Default Re: F U Carmack!

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Originally Posted by NarcissistZero View Post
So if you owned a business and 80% of your customers liked one service, and 20% the other, you would concentrate on the the 20%?

There are many developers and games that are built on the PC for the PC due to a loyalty to PC games, or a control scheme issue, but they are mostly independent and lower budget. You can't expect iD to spend millions and millions of dollars on a new engine, game and technology, but make it for a small fraction of their market.

I wish PC gaming was still a focus. I wish people would flood back to PC gaming and we could see more epic RPGs, fast-paced FPS shooters and simulated racers, all of which having immense enviornments, high-res textures, and other PC-centered attributes... I wish games like Morrowind and Deus Ex were still popular, rather than their downgraded modern counterparts... but the simple fact is developers need to make money to survive and make more games, and the money is on consoles.

PERIOD.

The desire for loyalty above all else from people spending millions on these projects is INSANE... get over it... be realistic.

I am sure these interviews are geared toward a certain purpose, which is to ensure the gaming press and console gamers that this game will be console friendly. iD is a PC company in most people's minds, so they are doing a PR push to make sure console-focused media pays attention to Rage. This makes it seem like the game is more console-focused than it probably is... also, the press seems to be twisting things. Have you looked at the article to see what is actually a quote? VERY little is. It is FUD.

So calm down. Rage will be amazing, and will surely run better and look better on PC.
ok, mostly valid points.

But you say that you wish PC gaming was still a focus. It's not impossible that PC gaming could become more popular again compared to consoles, but it won't happen unless something is done to change the current trend. And if it does happen it won't emerge "naturally" from market forces, it will take someone to intervene. It will take people with the industry clout to say "if you want to play my game with the best experience possible, you will have to buy it on the PC".

Having said that, the market forces of the hardware industry could provide a push back to PC-focused gaming by throwing alot of money at the problem - ie, funding development of games by leading game developers so that their customers have a reason to buy their graphics cards.

Imagine if Nvidia contracted id to produce 5 years worth of AAA PC exclusives... They could probably afford to do it and id could have the funding to really push the state of the art.
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