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Old 07-28-09, 01:14 AM   #25
sillyeagle
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Default Re: F U Carmack!

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Originally Posted by Vanzagar View Post
The problem is MS, they're not helping the PC gaming situation with the xcrap360, and their lack of pc games support, if we all moved away from Windows OS, MS would change their tune rather quickly... go Google OS...
MS is trying to kill the PC, even if indirectly. For example, after they shut down the Flight Simulator team, they began telling retailers not to stock FSX add ons anymore. I mean what the hell is up with that? There's really no add ons at retail in the US, but in Germany there's tons, and Aerosoft, the leading publisher of Boxed/Retail add ons has stated the retailers won't stock their stuff anymore, becuase they listen to MS rather than the add on publisher.
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Old 07-28-09, 01:54 AM   #26
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Default Re: F U Carmack!

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But you say that you wish PC gaming was still a focus. It's not impossible that PC gaming could become more popular again compared to consoles, but it won't happen unless something is done to change the current trend. And if it does happen it won't emerge "naturally" from market forces, it will take someone to intervene. It will take people with the industry clout to say "if you want to play my game with the best experience possible, you will have to buy it on the PC".
I fully agree with that... I wish developers would hype PC versions more often. Bethesda is one company that still makes their PC versions much better than their console versions, but even they talk about how they're identical in interviews, and they close down threads on their forum that ask which version is better, saying things like "they're all the same."

They know they aren't the same, they're just doing PR. My question is, what is the goal of that PR? I assume they are worried that openly admitting the superior version is on PC will make some console gamers say "oh, this is a PC game, I'll ignore it." Is that what would happen though? Or would it develop more interest in the PC as a system?

I'm surprised Valve hasn't done something like this at least, or even gone further and made a point to make PC exclusives. Can you imagine if they put their entire marketing power behind Left 4 Dead but it was a PC exclusive? I bet it would have sold some video cards and increased the power of Steam. Enough to counter-balance the 360 sales though? Who knows.
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Old 07-28-09, 02:02 AM   #27
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Default Re: F U Carmack!

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argument argument....
You stole all my points and spruced them up and used % tages! Damn you!

Haha yeah but I get a laugh about this. Carmack must be punching a wall right now. The guy SLAVES away making the best PC gaming engines, Quake 3, is part of the studio that WAS FPS shooters for a decade. This Carmack that took massive risks with Doom 3 to create a thrilling and technologically progressive game.

The company that so much valued independence offered on PC that they stayed independent for nearly their entire life?

That Carmack is now the devil? ROFL COPTER! DAMN!

The carmack-haters above me need to relax. When you do a tenth of what he's done without outside publishers money, come back and we will never remind you of this day.
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Old 07-28-09, 02:08 AM   #28
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And even still Gallant John Carmack refuses to change any aspect of his operation:
"id Software will continue to operate as a studio under the direction of its founder, John Carmack. No changes will be made in the operations of id Software in the development of its games. All the principals at id Software have signed long-term employment contracts, assuring they will continue in their roles developing games at the studio. "

So we can expect some PC focused titles too. They are probably going to outsource a lot of the work, like they've done int the past to other devs. I wouldn't be surprised if future ID titles will be developed for PC's but ported over to consoles, especially next gen. iD games rarely require a very complex control scheme, so they could give a really nice layout for pc gamers, with a custom U.I, and then do the same for their console brethrein, with a bubbly console U.I, and everyone will be happy. Of course I'll demand more physics effects, better lighting, etc, but Carmack has never failed us on the technology front. Not ONCE.
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Old 07-28-09, 02:09 AM   #29
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Default Re: F U Carmack!

I have a feeling that Rage is going to fail ! I'm not buying it.
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Old 07-28-09, 02:10 AM   #30
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Default Re: F U Carmack!

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MS is trying to kill the PC, even if indirectly. For example, after they shut down the Flight Simulator team, they began telling retailers not to stock FSX add ons anymore. I mean what the hell is up with that? There's really no add ons at retail in the US, but in Germany there's tons, and Aerosoft, the leading publisher of Boxed/Retail add ons has stated the retailers won't stock their stuff anymore, becuase they listen to MS rather than the add on publisher.
This is true, thank god they never had much of a say in PC gaming to begin with. The biggest issue is that as they gobble up more game studios, or become a bigger publisher, they'll have discretion with where to go.

However, thanks to our free market, they will notice big gaming house like ZeNiMax/Bethesda, Capcom & others publishing tons of quality PC titles, and will eventually start a PC-gaming vigorous initiative.
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Old 07-28-09, 02:11 AM   #31
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I have a feeling that Rage is going to fail ! I'm not buying it.
Lol. I had a feeling I was a boy trapped in a girls body. That was a weird feeling.
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Old 07-28-09, 02:21 AM   #32
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ok, mostly valid points.


Having said that, the market forces of the hardware industry could provide a push back to PC-focused gaming by throwing alot of money at the problem - ie, funding development of games by leading game developers so that their customers have a reason to buy their graphics cards.

Imagine if Nvidia contracted id to produce 5 years worth of AAA PC exclusives... They could probably afford to do it and id could have the funding to really push the state of the art.
You are using the term "market forces" incorrectly. With the correct meaning, the "market forces" of the hardware industry could never sway the console publishers to go PC, as they are currently selling all the videocards they can. People are buying stuff, and they are beign incentivised by the console people with very lucrative, relatively R&D expense-less deals. The market is obviously shifting on 2 fronts now, and GPU makers need to adapt. If PC consumer GPU sales decline to the amount necessary for what you are proposing to happen, we could see a case where ATI & nVidia quietely raise hardware prices on PC in order to retain margins on products that they aren't delivering in volume (because say, the future is a wasteland for pc-gaming).

The console industry is solely concerned with maximizing software sales. The best way to do that right now is to publish on dedicated, cheap machines. The financial backers will ask hardware manufacturers to develop chips for their system, and if they say no, they will develop based on their previous IP's and make their own hardware, or go the competitor. The competitor will accept the deal, because it is both great Marketing against the other and a great cash flow (they will have greater bargaining powers in the 2nd round of negotiations, since the console manu no longer has a cheap way to get the processors it needs). Boom, they're notw controlled by the Console manu. If I were a console manu, I would have the company sign a non-compete clause.

They're not the 3 muskateers. They're Intel, AMD, and Nvidia. They have stockholders, and if they were to put up some sort of protest, it would have to be done in unision and with good concessions to the publishers who would be asked to publish titles for the pc-exclusively. They would also have to make a persuasive case that it was more worthwhile developing games for PC-users and then porting over, rather than the other way. The later is what we already have.

What you mentioned would be interesting though. I suppose that a possibility for GPU manufacturers would be to get into game design. With Intel, AMD, nVidia having such close ties with studios, I could see a future business model where hardware manuf's are aligned with software providers, and become game studio/publishing house conglomirates. In this way they could effectively both make money on the product they are selling, but also on the software consumers run on their gpu's. It would be great marketing for the GPU dev.'s hardware. However, even in that case, "market forces" would still dictate that these newly formed conglomorates focus on the console industry, because money is 28 times sweeter on that side. Unless some exec (for example:nvidia) decides that he could solve the Pirating issue for the most part, and that his company could dramatically expand the market, and even start an expansionist trend, then it would do it. That could turn a company like Nvidia back to the halcyon $35 stock days. Only when piracy is eliminated, and faith in PC gamers buying their products is restored will that happen.

It would be nvidia's dream to be able to have a true PhysX title, and have really nice CUDA applications on your computer. The apps are where the moneys at. Nvidia should be reading this post and nodding their heads. This will save them. They would need to start slow, and purchase eastern european studios, or find really great indie developers to try out.
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Old 07-28-09, 02:25 AM   #33
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Default Re: F U Carmack!

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Lol. I had a feeling I was a boy trapped in a girls body. That was a weird feeling.
its ok you can get a sex change operation in mexico for $9000us
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Old 07-28-09, 03:45 AM   #34
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Default Re: F U Carmack!

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its ok you can get a sex change operation in mexico for $9000us
You know this how?

Ms. ATi used to be Mr. ATi?
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Old 07-28-09, 04:04 AM   #35
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Default Re: F U Carmack!

This kind of games i prefer playing with a mouse and keyboard and not a silly controller.. i dont get it, maybe if its third person then yes controller is ok but fps never.
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Old 07-28-09, 04:08 AM   #36
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Default Re: F U Carmack!

Is it hard to design the game first for PC then downscale it to console needs? Wouldn't it be easier to go down than trying to go up match today's pc's?
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