Yes or no. Do you like Dragon Age?

[crainger]

We need someone familiar with the table top DND and Biowares games to explain how both are turn based.

[CaptNKILL]

I understand how some are calling this turn based, like most other Bioware games (pre-Mass Effect) but its still real time.

In most cases, real time and turn based are seen as two completely different things.

The underlying rules of the game are based on turns but the gameplay is not turn based. There is a difference.

[jeffmd]

I view turn based as each action being indavidual. Some games like ff tactics had cast times that would stretch out along multiple turns, but for the most part a spell, and action, an attack, would take a turn and no other action from other players takes place.

This is not the case. Spells..actions.. movement..items are all activated ontop of eachother..some being able to cancel others out after they have started. thats not turn based.

[crainger]

It's not turn based to you, but in the world of Game design and rule sets it is.

[CaptNKILL]

I guess I'm thinking of it in terms of real time strategy games:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_based

There is a clear distinction between games that allow any player to do anything whenever they want and ones that require the players to take turns.

The term "turn based" could definitely have other meanings though.

Dragon Age, Baldur's Gate and KOTOR are examples of real time games that use turn based rules. You can still call this "turn based" since it is based on turns at its core, but in the traditional sense it is definitely not a turn based game because the player can interact with the game at any time.

Also, another major difference between traditional "turn based" games like Fallout and games like KOTOR is that multiple characters can attack at the same time. If you attacked a group of 10 enemies in Fallout, every one of them got to move and attack individually before you could move again. In games like Baldur's Gate, anyone can move or attack whenever they want. Once an attack is started, THAT is when the turns and dice rolls come into play.

See the difference?

[Zelda_fan]

Originally Posted by Banko

Turn based means everyone takes a turn and someone can't go before the other has taken their turn or passes it on.

God damn you're dense. WHAT I QUOTED IS HOW DRAGON AGE WORKS. Except instead of auto-pausing every time there is a dice roll like Pokemon does, the game continues in a fluid motion unless you pause it manually.

A non-turn based like game Quake III there are no dice rolls or number of attacks per six seconds or anything like that. Hits are calculated based on the geometrical accuracy of your shot, and the amount of attacks per roll is equal to how fast you can click the mouse.

[CaptNKILL]

Originally Posted by Zelda_fan

God damn you're dense. WHAT I QUOTED IS HOW DRAGON AGE WORKS. Except instead of auto-pausing every time there is a dice roll like Pokemon does, the game continues in a fluid motion unless you pause it manually.

A non-turn based like game Quake III there are no dice rolls or number of attacks per six seconds or anything like that. Hits are calculated based on the geometrical accuracy of your shot, and the amount of attacks per roll is equal to how fast you can click the mouse.

No need to get pissy.

Dice rolls do not make a game turn based, they're just randomly generated numbers. Calling it "dice" because its an RPG doesn't change anything. All games use these extensively, including Quake III. This has nothing to do with whether the game is real time, turn based, or an action RPG. Dragon Age is definitely not an action RPG though (this is what the discussion was about as far as I can tell) because it uses dice rolls to determine just about everything, including when the player's characters attack after the player executes a command. An action RPG generally allows the player to control when things happen while the outcome is determined by dice rolls and stats. This has nothing to do with being turn based though.

In Dragon Age, say you have one player character fighting one enemy at a certain pace. Their dice rolls determine when they attack and which one gets to attack more. Generally they will be taking turns attacking, but this is how pretty much every game works when things are done automatically without player interaction.

Now, as they are fighting, you have another character attack a different enemy, and both fights are going at their own pace. You won't see everyone stop and wait while the new fight begins.

The characters may be taking turns rolling dice on some basic level and within their individual fights but they are still doing things individually and you are free to do whatever you want while another fight is going. This is a far cry from a game like Fallout where only one character can do anything at a given time throughout the entire level.

Calling Dragon Age or any other real time game "turn based" is a definite stretch of the term. It may be heavily based on rules and dice rolls, but the game play does not require the player to wait for turns before making actions. If you want to argue that the turns are just extremely fast and do not wait for the player's interaction, then I can argue that Quake III is in fact turn based and that there are 60 turns per second and you can do whatever you want with those turns.

[NarcissistZero]

Originally Posted by CaptNKILL

I guess I'm thinking of it in terms of real time strategy games:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_based

There is a clear distinction between games that allow any player to do anything whenever they want and ones that require the players to take turns.

You can "do anything you want" but the game acts out your selection in turns. It is all turns, it just doesn't pause... you character does default actions in turns unless you tell him otherwise, and when you tell him otherwise he does it on the next turn.

Bioware themselves say it is turn based, it is just like Fallout only fast-paced and with no pausing. It is a turn-based game, I am sorry, there is no room for debate about it.

Diablo is real-time, Dragon Age is not.

[CaptNKILL]

Originally Posted by NarcissistZero

You can "do anything you want" but the game acts out your selection in turns. It is all turns, it just doesn't pause... you character does default actions in turns unless you tell him otherwise, and when you tell him otherwise he does it on the next turn.

Bioware themselves say it is turn based, it is just like Fallout only fast-paced and with no pausing. It is a turn-based game, I am sorry, there is no room for debate about it.

Diablo is real-time, Dragon Age is not.

No need to apologize, its nothing like Fallout.

Read the post after the one you quoted.

In games like Dragon Age multiple things can be done at once. Individual fights between characters may be turn based amongst themselves but that doesn't make the gameplay anything even remotely similar to Fallout where every active character in the game is taking turns with eachother at all times.

I'm not debating that the system has turn based elements, I'm just saying that it isn't a turn based game in the same sense as other games that actually require the player to take turns to play the game. And that is the ONLY way I have ever seen the term "turn based" used before visiting this thread.

http://dragonage.bioware.com/game/#5.01

5.01
Is it real-time or turn-based? (Back to top)

Combat in Dragon Age: Origins takes place in real-time. In addition, we included a pause-and-play system that allows players to take a more tactical approach to the game.

Anyways, Dragon Age is not an action RPG... and that's where all this started. So lets get things back on track here.

[NarcissistZero]

Originally Posted by CaptNKILL

In games like Dragon Age multiple things can be done at once. Individual fights between characters may be turn based amongst themselves but that doesn't make the gameplay anything even remotely similar to Fallout where every active character in the game is taking turns with eachother at all times.

I'm not debating that the system has turn based elements, I'm just saying that it isn't a turn based game in the same sense as other games that actually require the player to take turns to play the game. And that is the ONLY way I have ever seen the term "turn based" used before visiting this thread.

The turns are done so quickly it seems like everything is happening all at once, but that doesn't mean it is.

[CaptNKILL]

Originally Posted by NarcissistZero

The turns are done so quickly it seems like everything is happening all at once, but that doesn't mean it is.

So are we in agreement on all of my points other than this one?

[NarcissistZero]

I think it mainly comes down to how you define turn-based I guess. It's like how Zelda and Monkey Island are both "adventure" games and Dragon Age and Final Fantasy are both RPGs, there are varying definitions for gameplay terms. In my opinion Dragon Age and Fallout are both turn-based, they just present the systems in wildly different ways.

This right here...

In Dragon Age, say you have one player character fighting one enemy at a certain pace. Their dice rolls determine when they attack and which one gets to attack more. Generally they will be taking turns attacking, but this is how pretty much every game works when things are done automatically without player interaction.

... defines a turn-based game to me.

I have had so many arguements over semantics with game genre titles I guess I should know better than to dive in head first, but for me Dragon Age is obviously turn-based, and that is that. Others can define it how they wish, though I must ask if it is not turn-based, how do you seperate it from Diablo or Oblivion? Those are stat-based, yet completely different.