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Old 01-29-10, 11:00 PM   #205
Slytat
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Default Re: 5870/5970 vs. GF100 (Fermi)

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Originally Posted by shadow001 View Post
That is likely the largest pile of bull i've ever heard,since i still remember the huge amount of flak when the shoe was on the other foot,and it was Nvidia beating ATI to the punch with the first DX10 card on the market,and it was ATI's turn to release a massively delayed card and it ended up not performing well enough to beat the 8800GTX,released over 6 months earlier,and you still ignored the common points between both of course.


1:The R600 was ATI's first DX10 GPU(so is Fermi with regards to DX11 from Nvidia).
2:The R600 was delayed by at least 6 months(Fermi is also late by 6 months).
3:The R600 also used a lot more power than the G80,and so does Fermi over Cypress.
4:the X2900XT actually needed a 6+8 PCI-e power connector arrangement,and so does the evaluation samples of Fermi shown at Comdex.
5:The R600 ran hot and the cooling was noisy,and it seems to be the same for Fermi.
6:ATI didn't reveal any performance figures for the X2900XT until the reviews were out,and it looks like Nvidia is doing the same thing with Fermi.
7:Permance wise,the R600 was a dissapointment and didn't beat the 8800GTX released months earlier,and that's the only thing we still don't know about Fermi.


The parallels are easy to make between both products for their respective timeframes,and what the competition had at the time,and who released their cards first,ended up being the faster card overall.

While they conveniently support YOUR arguments, they certainly don't prove anything and they are more of a "best case" for your line of thinking than anything else. I didn't ignore them, I just don't put as much stock as you do in your own "coincidence" theory.

What's bull? The fact that I would wait for both before declaring a winner? Are you telling me how I think now?



That's actually pretty histerical since Nvidia released their 8800GTX 3 months before Vista was even available and there were 0 games using DX10,while ATI released the HD5800 series with the DX11 patch out for Vista,being right around the time that Windows 7 was released,which of course also supports DX11 and there's actually a few games using at least some DX11 features right now,and the bottom line is ATI is making money on DX11 card sales right now,while Nvidia hasn't made a dime on Fermi sales yet.


You were saying about being too early???

I never said too early, I said early, big difference.

And that's entirely my point DX10 wasn't a factor then and DX11 isn't a factor now (as in the next few months). Obviously Nvidia used it then and ATI is using it now because they could/can. It's irrelevant in both cases (and still is for DX10 for the most part although I will say that DX11 looks like it might be more significant over time)




I'm saving this quote for later use once Fermi reviews are out.....

That's comedy If Fermi sucks I will not be happy or complimentary towards Nvidia. You're sceptical because of the way YOU think. I've already said I would likely go with ATI's refresh if Fermi is abysmal.



LOL,keep dreaming in color....Here's a hint,didn't you find it funny that in all the slides regarding the gaming previews released recently to all major hardware sites,they compared it to the HD5870 cards,didn't make a mention of settings used in the least,and completely ignored that the HD5970 even existed in all the Nvidia provided slides?


Fermi is going to have enough trouble dealing with a Single Cypress GPU,never mind 2 of them,and god knows when a dual GPU fermi card is going to be released if the single GPU version is giving them this much trouble to release..

From the few benchmarks I've seen, that is simply not the case

Again, you don't know anything definitive either way so I am not dreaming anymore than you are.



Here's a funny video that used for everything really,but really puts the perspective on the current situation right now:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR45ja_fNzU
Oh and as far as Fermi (380) vs 5970, just stop making that comparison already. Its the 395 (or whatever it ends up being called that is coming in April) that should be compared to the 5970 (not that it's going to stop anyone as it looks way better for ATI users to compare the 380 to the 5970).
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Old 01-29-10, 11:15 PM   #206
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Default Re: 5870/5970 vs. GF100 (Fermi)

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Oh and as far as Fermi (380) vs 5970, just stop making that comparison already. Its the 395 (or whatever it ends up being called that is coming in April) that you should compare the 5970 to (not that it's going to stop anyone as it looks way better for ATI users to compare the 380 to the 5970).


Not telling you what to think,just that i'm not dumb enough to wait for a product that long,which is an obvious sign that something isn't going well with it's development,and ATI released something as good as their latest cards.


ATI ****ed up with the R600 and the same signs are there for Fermi,so it's up to users to remain objective about it,without any favoritism either way.


If you,me or anyone else doesn't perform at their job,the boss eventually loses patience and we lose that job eventually,so it should be no different for hardware you purchase.
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Old 01-29-10, 11:17 PM   #207
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Default Re: 5870/5970 vs. GF100 (Fermi)

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Not telling you what to think,just that i'm not dumb enough to wait for a product that long,which is an obvious sign that something isn't going well with it's development,and ATI released something as good as their latest cards.


ATI ****ed up with the R600 and the same signs are there for Fermi,so it's up to users to remain objective about it,without any favoritism either way.


If you,me or anyone else doesn't perform at their job,the boss eventually loses patience and we lose that job eventually,so it should be no different for hardware you purchase.
I didn't wait, I bought (and subsequently sold) 3 ATI 5xxx series cards but I'm holding out for Nvidia's offerings before declaring a winner.

Just to be VERY clear - Fermi could still be an unmitigated disaster. That wouldn't be good, but it isn't out of the realm of possibilty. It could equally be a resounding success.

More delays or a paper launch would not be very confidence inspiring. I'm hoping that they manage to pull through with a good card all the same.
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Old 01-30-10, 12:55 AM   #208
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Default Re: 5870/5970 vs. GF100 (Fermi)

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Originally Posted by shadow001 View Post
Here's a funny video that used for everything really,but really puts the perspective on the current situation right now:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR45ja_fNzU
I laughed sooo hard at that....thanks.....made my day....
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Old 01-30-10, 12:57 AM   #209
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Default Re: 5870/5970 vs. GF100 (Fermi)

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I laughed sooo hard at that....thanks.....made my day....
I'd seen it before but it's pretty damn funny
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Old 01-30-10, 01:29 AM   #210
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Default Re: 5870/5970 vs. GF100 (Fermi)

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Old 01-30-10, 03:54 AM   #211
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Default Re: 5870/5970 vs. GF100 (Fermi)

Wow,just wow
This thread sure as hell degenerated into the same fanboy crap as always but why am i surprised Nvidia better get some new hardware out the door pretty damn fast since the idle speculation and uncertainty about its features and performance seems to be getting on people's nerves.

Personally i'd say that single gpu's is where its at for me,i game at 1680x1050 so there's no need for xfire or sli.There's not a single game out now that i can't play at decent framerates/detail-levels but i also don't care as much as i used to.Dunno about fermi,i'll update when there's need for it and if ati has a better singlegpu card out at that time i will consider it.
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Old 01-30-10, 07:57 AM   #212
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Default Re: 5870/5970 vs. GF100 (Fermi)

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Nvidia better get some new hardware out the door pretty damn fast since the idle speculation and uncertainty about its features and performance seems to be getting on people's nerves.
You are of course correct.

I'm done with this until we actually have a released Fermi to compare (or at the very least, extensive testing from some reputable sites).
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Old 01-30-10, 08:54 AM   #213
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Default Re: 5870/5970 vs. GF100 (Fermi)

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That's true and the reason why nV also has WHQL versions.
But OEMs don't care about stuff like AA support at release, texture flickering and other "minor" gaming details.
But that's important for me as an end user. So nV's beta program is the preferred solution for me.



Well I seriously don't care about FPS. I always play with vsync on at 1080p. Even last gen cards are fast enough for that most of the times. If my old SLI does 100 FPS in a game and a single 5970 does 240, both are fast enough for me.
What matters is what works and what's problematic. I don't want to deal with annoying problems...
I upgrade GFX cards for the fun of it. That's why I also got the 5970 - to try it out. But in the end I want the most issue free experience and that simply wasn't the case with ATI, again.
Don't you have a pretty unique setup tv/display combo Slawter?
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Old 01-30-10, 09:48 AM   #214
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Default Re: 5870/5970 vs. GF100 (Fermi)

Actually a majority have swapped back to old video cards, especially people who were nvidia users. ATI rather they are a faster or not is just hard to get use to. For me its like a keyboard, I ended up going back to an older keyboard because I never could adapt to the new one, and the same goes for a mouse to. I may buy 2-3 different mice when mine finally goes bad. I have a 4870x2 behind me in a box. I used it for a week and went back to my nvidia card. I can't tell the difference in games, and my games look more crisp with the nvidia cards, and the colors are a lot better in windows, probably due to digital vibrance.

I think a lot of people that were nvidia fans that swapped to ATI have swapped back. Sure newegg reviews aren't always good but the majority there say the same things being said here. Crappy drivers, and lack of features that nvidia has over the ati series. nvidia is delayed but thats fine, ATI has been delayed to. To say ATI is winning is dumb. They simply are not.
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Old 01-30-10, 09:51 AM   #215
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Default Re: 5870/5970 vs. GF100 (Fermi)

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Well I seriously don't care about FPS. I always play with vsync on at 1080p. Even last gen cards are fast enough for that most of the times. If my old SLI does 100 FPS in a game and a single 5970 does 240, both are fast enough for me.
What matters is what works and what's problematic. I don't want to deal with annoying problems...
I upgrade GFX cards for the fun of it. That's why I also got the 5970 - to try it out. But in the end I want the most issue free experience and that simply wasn't the case with ATI, again.
Yeah, I know, as you've stated as much.

That wasn't a slam at you but just a general statement. Most folks with 5970s are quite happy with them and aren't looking to trade them for a slower card.

On the other hand, those who are looking for an all-in-one machine that does media playback--and that they can hook up to their HDTV problem-free--may not be as happy with it as they would if they'd owned Nvidia for several years prior (I, too, have had more luck with Nvidia for non-gaming purposes, but I have a separate box that I do my video editing or media playback on so it isn't an issue for me.)
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Old 01-30-10, 10:06 AM   #216
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Default Re: 5870/5970 vs. GF100 (Fermi)

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Yeah, I know, as you've stated as much.

That wasn't a slam at you but just a general statement. Most folks with 5970s are quite happy with them and aren't looking to trade them for a slower card.

On the other hand, those who are looking for an all-in-one machine that does media playback--and that they can hook up to their HDTV problem-free--may not be as happy with it as they would if they'd owned Nvidia for several years prior (I, too, have had more luck with Nvidia for non-gaming purposes, but I have a separate box that I do my video editing or media playback on so it isn't an issue for me.)
If I had a Crossfire like you I'd be very happy with them. However I will be buying fermi cards..Which is why I've waited. Hopefully Fermi will be faster then ATI.
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