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Old 07-09-03, 02:54 PM   #25
surfhurleydude
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Not strictly true, just look at UT2003 on GeForceFX cards. Not cheating in the most literal sense perhaps, but still swindling the customer out of features to inflate performance.
Well, one could argue that it doesn't really matter since all of the GeForce FX cards (Save for the NV30 and 35) aren't even fast enough to use those features anyhow
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Old 07-09-03, 02:55 PM   #26
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Originally posted by surfhurleydude
I seriously doubt just adding Trilinear filtering will cut the performance by such an extremely large margin.
Using total trilinear filtering costs about an extra 30% or so performance on ATi cards if I remember correctly even with their agressive adaptive filtering, the number will most probably be similar for nVidia cards.

nVidia are doing some trilinear in UT2003, but not on the whole scene, and nowhere near what they should be for the settings selected in the driver control panel.

As for having a nVidia logo in the game, that should mean the optimisations should be in the game, not via application detection in the driver.
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Old 07-09-03, 02:58 PM   #27
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Using total trilinear filtering costs about an extra 30% or so performance on ATi cards if I remember correctly even with their agressive adaptive filtering, the number will most probably be similar for nVidia cards.

nVidia are doing some trilinear in UT2003, but not on the whole scene, and nowhere near what they should be for the settings selected in the driver control panel.

As for having a nVidia logo in the game, that should mean the optimisations should be in the game, not via application detection in the driver.
So you're saying that total trilinear filtering will cost an extra 30% in performance in ADDITION to the performance hit already taken by using the bilinear/trilinear combo? Err...

Also, as for the nVidia optimizations, it could very well be in the driver as well as the game... Epic could simply be working with nVidia on optomizing the engine EVEN AFTER the game is shipped and the game can then call for driver optimizations when newer optomizations are created.
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Old 07-09-03, 03:03 PM   #28
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Originally posted by surfhurleydude
Also, as for the nVidia optimizations, it could very well be in the driver as well as the game... Epic could simply be working with nVidia on optomizing the engine EVEN AFTER the game is shipped and the game can then call for driver optimizations when newer optomizations are created.
Well, the Epic staff over at Beyond3D don't seem to know anything about that kind of deal, so.....

As for the bilinear/trilinear thing, if you do full trilinear filtering on all texture stages (not just the first) to get a proper trilinear 'look', then the performance hit is pretty large. I'll see if I can find a link to the article that benched it and gave the exact numbers.
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Old 07-09-03, 03:03 PM   #29
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Originally posted by surfhurleydude
I love ATi fanboys and their selective quoting....

You left off the:

"There is a large disparity in performance with Antidetect in use, and an the mipmap transition do appear to be more like Trilinear, however we don't know what other things AntiDetect disables here (however, there were no other visual rendering errors, quite the opposite!)"

Part...

I seriously doubt just adding Trilinear filtering will cut the performance by such an extremely large margin.



I mean crap, think logically, the game has a damn nVidia logo when you first start the game...do you not think it's optimized for nVidia or anything?

So this proves what? Nothing, fact is performance drops by a fairly large margin in one of the tests using the script whereas it doesn't for ATi. Could be both companies are cheating and one hasn't been caught or nVidia is just up to its usual tricks. Fact is you can use trilinear using the ATi cards in UT2k3 if you set it to application preference, you cannot do it fully with the FX line. Wait till they build custom maps with textures as suggested by that Epic guy, then we'll learn more about what's up. As for the nVidia logo, that means nothing, it's just marketing.
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Old 07-09-03, 03:06 PM   #30
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As for the nVidia logo, that means nothing, it's just marketing.
Yeah, it sure meant nothing when I purchased Metal Gear Solid 2 for my PC and had to return it because my Radeon 9700 Pro just happened to not work with it.
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Old 07-09-03, 03:06 PM   #31
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Originally posted by surfhurleydude
Yeah, it sure meant nothing when I purchased Metal Gear Solid 2 for my PC and had to return it because my Radeon 9700 Pro just happened to not work with it.

Crappy port, that's all. Epic themselves have stated it's just PR/Marketing, I guess they must be lying and you know the real truth.
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Old 07-09-03, 03:11 PM   #32
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****ty port, that's all. Epic themselves have stated it's just PR/Marketing, I guess they must be lying and you know the real truth.
Yeah, and nVidia AS WELL AS ATi said they weren't cheating either. Take everything you hear with a grain of salt. Only what you prove is the truth...

In reality, Metal Gear Solid 2 is a GREAT port. It runs very very well on nVidia cards. I played it the other day on a GeForce 4 Ti4400 and surprisingly it ran VERY well. Of course it wasn't with all of the bells and whistles like AA and AF on, but it was running at a decent resolution at a very smooth framerate (1024x768).

That's not what I'd call a "****ty Port" by any means... A ****ty port is Grand Theft AUto 3...
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Old 07-09-03, 03:11 PM   #33
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Ok, I found the article (in German) here.

These are the numbers:

UT2003 Demo FlyBy, 1024x768, 2:

Radeon9800 Pro partial trilinear 181,08

Radeon9800 Pro full trilinear 145,51


UT2003 Demo FlyBy, 1280x960, 2:

Radeon9800 Pro partial trilinear 109,44

Radeon9800 Pro full trilinear 88,61


As you can see, there is between 30-40 FPS difference once trilinear is applied on all stages.. The performance difference from bilinear to full trilinear would be even greater.
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Old 07-09-03, 03:13 PM   #34
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Thanks Hanners...Hmm, about a 20% drop in frames...

Maybe ATi and nVidia's cheats are for the better.
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Old 07-09-03, 03:14 PM   #35
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Originally posted by surfhurleydude
Yeah, and nVidia AS WELL AS ATi said they weren't cheating either. Take everything you hear with a grain of salt. Only what you prove is the truth...

In reality, Metal Gear Solid 2 is a GREAT port. It runs very very well on nVidia cards. I played it the other day on a GeForce 4 Ti4400 and surprisingly it ran VERY well. Of course it wasn't with all of the bells and whistles like AA and AF on, but it was running at a decent resolution at a very smooth framerate (1024x768).

That's not what I'd call a "****ty Port" by any means... A ****ty port is Grand Theft AUto 3...
Crappy port means they didn't test it properly with ATi cards (if there's been confirmed widespread issues). Logo or no logo, it wouldn't make sense for Konami to ignore a large portion of the market even if nVidia paid for logo rights.
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Old 07-09-03, 03:16 PM   #36
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Originally posted by surfhurleydude
Thanks Hanners...Hmm, about a 20% drop in frames...

Maybe ATi and nVidia's cheats are for the better.
Except with ATi you get to choose which option you want.
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