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Old 07-14-03, 09:05 AM   #1
WaxyLemon
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Default Linux 2.6.0

Linux 2.6.0-test1 has been released:

http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=linu...5539730173&w=2

Anybody from nVidia care to comment on how quickly drivers will be available?
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Old 07-14-03, 10:15 AM   #2
tspinillo
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Default 2.6

Have you tried this patch:

http://www.minion.de/nvidia.html

I'm sure when 2.6 is official in the next month or 2
Nvidia will have something.

T
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Old 07-22-03, 03:22 AM   #3
DrUberEgo
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Default It doesn't matter about a month from now...

Here's a clear case of why closed source drivers
is a bad idea. You aren't waiting 1 or two months
for a driver. You've been waiting for over a year.
the 2.5 series has been out for a long time now
and nvidia has never relased drivers for it.

nvidia should stick to make hardware and just
release the specs. If they did that then:

1) the nvidia chipsets would *already* be supported
in 2.6 kernels.

2) the nvnet driver would *Already* be supported
in 2.6 kernels.

3) They wouldn't have to pay people to write drivers
for minority operating systems.

4) they wouldn't have to pay to keep this forum up.

5) they wouldn't lose customer faith by being late
to market. YES, nvidia is *LATE* to market.
My matrox products are all already supported in
2.6.

closed source drivers from hardware companies is
just simply a poor idea.

What hardware companies need to learn, and it
seems an impossible task for them, is: You don't
have to spend money to support a hardware
product under minority operating systems. You
just have to release the specs AND they can even
then say "WE 100% POSITIVELY DO NOT,
REPEAT, ***DO NOT*** PROVIDE SUPPORT
FOR THIS PRODUCT WITH THIS O/S".

And you get better drivers written more quickly
for free.
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Old 07-23-03, 02:12 PM   #4
hohlraum
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I used to feel the same way. All I have to say is look at the POS drivers ATI people are stuck with. They dont even compare to what Nvidia has been releasing on their own dime. I do however wish that Nvidia would release beta drivers that follow the development kernels.
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Old 07-23-03, 02:47 PM   #5
zander
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The source code to the Linux kernel interface layer of the NVIDIA kernel module is available and can be modified to work with Linux 2.5.* as well as Linux 2.6.0-test*; third parties have made such modifications available, tspinillo's link is an example. If you are so inclined, you can use NVIDIA products with development kernels.
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Old 07-23-03, 09:21 PM   #6
parafrgress
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Lightbulb

I totally agree with you on open source drivers being better. On top of all the reasons you've mentioned, open source drivers would be better because

they'd be available longer... the community would keep the "wave alive" longer than the norm.

Open source driver writers are better than the ones nvidia pays. How is that? Because they *want it*.

When you've got interest invested in something, it'll have high priority in your time.
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Old 07-23-03, 10:44 PM   #7
MarkSmith
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Personally I think NVidia are doing what is best by keeping the drivers closed source ("Oh my gosh! Sacralege! I hear you cry! :-)

Well if you think about it

1) NVidia own the patents/designs etc for their products, why should they reveal how they work ?

2) NVidia employ the people who designed the hardware and software so they've got all the expertise and should be able to produce the best software.

3) Open Source drivers are open to malicious tampering ... I'm quite sure you can hunt through google and find various references to backdoors being coded into various "free" programs.

4) NVidia will probably stick to a design methodolgy .. whereas open source developers prefer the hackit and postit method (from the Bodgitt & Skarper institute of learning)

Just my opinion :-)

Mark
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Old 07-24-03, 04:32 AM   #8
bahamot
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Default Re: It doesn't matter about a month from now...

DrUberEgo nice one
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Old 07-24-03, 02:06 PM   #9
iplayfast
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Quote:
Originally posted by MarkSmith
Personally I think NVidia are doing what is best by keeping the drivers closed source ("Oh my gosh! Sacralege! I hear you cry! :-)

Well if you think about it

1) NVidia own the patents/designs etc for their products, why should they reveal how they work ?

If their products are patented then it's already been revealed. I think propbably portions are patented, but a large part is just trade secret.

Quote:
2) NVidia employ the people who designed the hardware and software so they've got all the expertise and should be able to produce the best software.
While I don't disagree with this statement, it really has nothing to do with releasing the specifications so that OS programmers can add their additions/fixes/improvements

Quote:
3) Open Source drivers are open to malicious tampering ... I'm quite sure you can hunt through google and find various references to backdoors being coded into various "free" programs.
Spoken like someone who doesn't know anything. Have you even heard of Microsoft? Every single week there's another gaping hole found in their security. With open source, the holes are much less frequent, since 1. The programmer doesn't dare rely on security through obscurity, and 2. There are more people pointing out the bugs. I urge you to do some research into this, and see for yourself.
Quote:
4) NVidia will probably stick to a design methodolgy .. whereas open source developers prefer the hackit and postit method (from the Bodgitt & Skarper institute of learning)
Why would you assume that open source developers aren't professional? As someone who as seen over 2 decades of programing (and more then that of source code) I can assure you that Open source code is generally much more cleaner and easier to understand the proprietary. It is obvious to me that you haven't ever done any Open Source programming or you would know better.



Quote:
Just my opinion :-)

Mark
Which in my opinion is rather uninformed.
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Old 07-24-03, 02:26 PM   #10
PtrToNull
 
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I'd have to agree with Mark on this.

Quote:
Why would you assume that open source developers aren't professional? As someone who as seen over 2 decades of programing (and more then that of source code) I can assure you that Open source code is generally much more cleaner and easier to understand the proprietary. It is obvious to me that you haven't ever done any Open Source programming or you would know better.
It's never a question about professionalism. Open Source developers (like myself) develop software when "time" permits and when I feel like it (unless I'm hired).

When I do write the software, I make sure it meets professional standards, but NVidia cannot place the vitality of its market share and customer satisfaction on the hopes that developers write unified drivers with a solid design paradigm that is compatiblie with NVidia standards and their release cycle.

Thus far, NVidia has provided exceptional support for Linux. My laptop has an ATI mobile chip and let's not dwell into the nightmares of finding "open source" drivers for it.

Just my 2c.
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Old 07-24-03, 02:47 PM   #11
iplayfast
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Mark's original statement was directly about professionalisum and that is what I was contesting.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark

4) NVidia will probably stick to a design methodolgy .. whereas open source developers prefer the hackit and postit method (from the Bodgitt & Skarper institute of learning)
I understand that you do your own programming in your own time and at your own pace, but when you submit your changes or code, isn't it good quality stuff? Or do you just hackit and postit? Most professionals that I know do not submit their code to scrutiny by their peers unless it is good quality. It's just too embarressing otherwise.

I do agree that Nvidia would probably do things in their driver that the common programmer wouldn't think to do, or wouldn't do because it isn't fun, but that really has nothing to do with releasing the source does it? By releasing it, does it take anything away from Nvidia, or does it increase their market share, or possibly increase the technology? How often do open source projects get used in ways totally foreign to the way it was originally intended. This isn't a bad thing, it's a good thing. And if someone can think of a way to make the nvidia drivers sing in a slightly better or expanded way, that's also a good thing.
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Old 07-24-03, 03:26 PM   #12
vikool
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by MarkSmith

4) NVidia will probably stick to a design methodolgy .. whereas open source developers prefer the hackit and postit method (from the Bodgitt & Skarper institute of learning)
In a recent Study by The Reasoning Group ( Mentioned on Slashdot) , they discovered that

Apache http server V2.1 code has defect density rate similar to the average found within commercial applications

http://www.reasoning.com/news/pr/07_01_03.html

Maybe its not better coding but its not worse either
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