Nvidia may be in trouble according to this article

[Sazar]

Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

AMD and Nvidia will always go back and forth. I have been using both companies GPUS since Nvidia game out with its Geforce 256 and before then even with my
3dfx setup. your mistake is your myopic perspective. stand back and see the trees. stating and missing a release date does not equate to a lie automatically

I have been using products from both companies for a long time as well.

But what he did was lie.

Missing deadlines due to various delays is perfectly acceptable.

Lying to prevent people from buying a competitors product is a different story.

I completely understand how shipping schedules, parts availability and what not work in the industry darth I also understand how reality distortion fields work.

[Sazar]

Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

again, how can you prove you KNOW that he said something he KNEW was not true? You cannot. the proof is on you since you make the charge. I am not saying he did not lie as I have no way to prove that either but then I am not making charges against him.

Well a couple of things.

First: there is historical precedent. He made the same kind of statements around the time of the NV30 launch, which was only delayed for like 6 or 7 months or so. It also was not ready for launch and yet we were fed information about how it would be out by a certain date and how it would be so amazing and so fast. And yet, we find out afterwards, that was a concerted effort to feed b.s. while preventing people from buying other cards. I ended up buying a 9700pro and was more than satisfied for a long, long time.

Second: there is nothing to indicate that Nvidia has had any kind of shipping schedule or parts availability that would have prompted a November launch or even talk of one. Since the date has already passed, I can say that we never had any test units in our labs, like we typically do and I didn't see any information regarding sku's, or anything really, either from our contacts or from the grapevine online (which is usually VERY accurate) about this kind of thing. Outside of the people at semi-accurate who seem more sensationalist than anything else.

I am in a position where I affect sales. If I go out and tell people I am working directly with that I have a shipping date while knowing full well that I have absolutely no way to actually facilitate delivery of the product, that is lying. In the case of Jen here, I think you can't go wrong calling it a lie.

[shadow001]

Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

they can make predictions based on their previous experience I would guess. Both AMD and Nvidia have been having production issues (granted at different stages). I am sorry but you have to be able to prove intent to say this person or that person is lying. Intel said Larrabee would be out by last October . . . were they lying? No. That was their best guess when they made the statement.

And that's the first mistake right there,since you never base availability on past experience with previous products,since previous products where using no where near the same transistor budget or fabrication process that fermi is,as a lot of things can go wrong between theory and actual product availability,you either have it or you don't,it's really that simple.


What you don't do is anounce availability at a given timeframe for a product that doesn't exist yet in actual silicon form,and having any sort of volume that would allow for a launch in november,means producing thousands of final Fermi chips beforehand,supplying those chips to Nvidia's usual partners to build the actual cards,getting drivers finalised for launch and all the marketing campaign that goes with it,so it's not a process that's done overnight,but takes a couple of months at least.


Basically when ATI had their launch on the 23rd of september,the final version of fermi would already need to be in high volume production by then to even remotely allow a launch in late november with decent availability of cards to actually sell,not just a paper launch,and that was not even close to the case and Nvidia's CEO knew it.

as for Charlie: I don't give a rats arse about him. I can make a call and get right to the source. Does my source know EVERYTHING? no, of course not. But he does know more than some pinhead with an axe to grind (my bud used to be a hardware reviewer before working for Nvidia).

If you can,please do as people have had enough with the delays,performance speculations,power consumption and the actual launch date,which has still yet to be anounced officially BTW.

[shadow001]

Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

From what I have been told, I was non-Nvidia person to actually handle the Fermi GPU (when I visited Nvidia in November of last year). a little over a month after that video.

Was it actually in a PC and running a game or benchmark?

[shadow001]

Well,it looks like the launch of fermi in march or april will largely be a paper launch afterall,since availability will be limited,with larger volumes only available on the second quarter of this year,and this is confirmed by an Nvidia executive,not just another rumor floating around.


http://vr-zone.com/forums/561413/nvi...yet-again.html


Real availability of GTX 470 and 480 cards only starts in may at the earliest it seems,and they even state that more budget oriented DX11 class GPU's aren't important since users buying cards in those prices ranges don't demand the latest functionality and that Nvidia's current DX10,DX10.1 cards are fabulous for that segment,so that leaves ATI with their HD5500/5600/5700 cards with the mainstream/budget DX11 market all to themselves basically.

[Sazar]

Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

you have not proven anything. I have been talking with them about this product and release dates for quite some time and have a totally different impression. You cannot prove why he said what he said and what the basis for it was as you do not have access to that information.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree

In my opinion, he lied to save sales for his company and reduce sales to the competition while knowing there could not be a product delivered to the market by the stated time-frame. They have done this before and it appears they are doing it again.

In your opinion, it was a delay as a result of something else.

[ir123]

Originally Posted by Sazar

Darth, in a manner of speaking, yes.

Much like the NV30 setup, the whole thing of "wait till this date, do NOT buy the other product, ours will be out by x date and will be faster and better".

It's not marketing, that's just lieing to prevent someone from buying a superior product that is out on the market now. Whether or not Fermi is faster whenever it is released is moot because their competitor has had a faster product out now for 6 months or so and the only response has been to lie to potential buyers to prevent them from going out and getting something else.

In this case, there is no indication anywhere that Nvidia even tried to get their card released by November of last year so, unfortunately, that would classify what he said as being a lie.

Worked for MikeRowesoft.

[Madpistol]

Originally Posted by shadow001

Well,it looks like the launch of fermi in march or april will largely be a paper launch afterall,since availability will be limited,with larger volumes only available on the second quarter of this year,and this is confirmed by an Nvidia executive,not just another rumor floating around.


http://vr-zone.com/forums/561413/nvi...yet-again.html


Real availability of GTX 470 and 480 cards only starts in may at the earliest it seems,and they even state that more budget oriented DX11 class GPU's aren't important since users buying cards in those prices ranges don't demand the latest functionality and that Nvidia's current DX10,DX10.1 cards are fabulous for that segment,so that leaves ATI with their HD5500/5600/5700 cards with the mainstream/budget DX11 market all to themselves basically.

It looks like ATI has won this generation by default.

I bought an 8800 GTX, and now I've bought a 5870. Both are epic WIN!

[Johnny C]

Originally Posted by Madpistol

It looks like ATI has won this generation by default.

I bought an 8800 GTX, and now I've bought a 5870. Both are epic WIN!

Agreed,

8800GTX was probably the best card for performance/longevity I've ever bought.(except the release drivers....I remember waiting for game support for the first couple months)

4870 1gb was a good card...and still is...but doesn't match the GTX for it's increase in performance...

5850 right now is by far the best buy killer performance smallish price....can't go wrong.

Back on topic.

nV is pooched this round....we all know it. While I respect Darth's opinion....it is obvious due to his current affiliation/employment with nV he has access to info that's NDA'd that we do not. I don't think that I'd go out of my way to support a CEO who is blatantly full of ****....the only can of whoop ass he's opening up is on himself....

Everything else aside....I can't wait for this damn thing to get released so I can either go x-fire for cheap....or get a refresh card.

[Johnny C]

Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

uh, but I am not defending his actions I am just saying making extreme accusations such as outright lying have not been proven. I have not said there is not marketing going on You also notice I have not and will not bash AMD's stuff.

That's why I respect your opinion....


But the fact is: "this puppy here....is woodscrews and superglue" and he knew it....just watch the big nervous swallow he takes after saying that....

[shadow001]

Originally Posted by slaWter

Dude give it a rest already... Stop trying to pretend everything is/was perfectly fine with ATI. Your beloved 5000 series was available only in very limited quantities until a few weeks after the official release.

Actually,ATI had already 300 000 cards ready for the official launch between the HD5700/5800 series when it was first launched,but given how well they performed and that rumors regading fermi delays were already floating around the web,they sold out that initial lot in record time,as a lot of people simply decided not to wait for Fermi if it's that late to the market....Patience has limits for everything.



Now this latest article just rubs it in even further with the likelyhood that getting your hands on one of those cards from the initial batch,if it really is under fermi 10 000 cards worldwide,will make getting an HD5800 look easy by comparison,with higher volumes only really being available starting from may onwards.



As hard as it is for some to admit,this first generation of Fermi is over and done with given all the delays,much like what happened with ATI and the original R600 which was also delayed 6+ months compared to the G80 based cards,and where it was replaced very quickly with the RV670 based cards about 3 months later,since at least those were cheaper to build and used less power than the original R600.


Basically,look for a second generation of the GF100 GPU to show up soon after this one,this time taking all the lessons learned with the first version in terms of yeilds,power use and actually hitting the clocks that were intended for this first version.....ATI is coming out with with refreshed versions of their HD5*** lineup and they've also got a new architecture popping up with the northern islands series(HD 6*** line),later this year,so Nvidia have to look beyond the original GF100 at this point.

[shadow001]

Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

Did he say it was not a prototype? Did he say it was a functioning unit? Like I said, I HELD prototype units in my hands a month after that video (at least that is my guess according to the date on youtube) and it did not 'appear' to be superglued and all. I also got to learn about alot of cool things, one being the multi-monitor 3d Honestly I was hoping Intel would have their Larrabee out (I even applied for a marketing job for that project a year or two ago - back when it was a go).

The funny thing about all this is that I do not see why people get so damned worked up. It is just hardware. There are better things to get pissed about. This is how I see it and I am more involved in this industry than most if not all of you. Perspective.

if you want to bitch about a crooked CEO . . .or former . . .
http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/02/e...s-chairman-am/

A prototype is still a working sample no matter what,even if it isn't operating at whatever the final specifications that the retail cards would have been working at....That card wasn't working in any shape or form and didn't even have a Fermi GPU in it to begin with,and Nvidia's CEO never said it was a mockup of what fermi will look like....He simply stated this was fermi right here,which is a big difference.