All rumors and FUD at this point ! - Page 2

preacher35 · 02-26-10, 12:48 PM

I'm new here and this is my first post on this board. But all of this conjecture on the new Fermi cards motivated me to give my position. I have been an Nvidia die-hard enthusiast for years and years: MX4000, FX5200, 6600GT, 7800GTX, 8800GTX SLI, GTX 285.... This time, however, I'm not so sure. I never, in my wildest imagination thought that I would find myself actually considering an ATI card. It almost seems sacrilegious. But, the only reason I found this board is exactly the reason that I feel that Nvidia has blown it this time. I'm only here because I have been in the market for a new GPU for two months now and I cannot get much, IF ANY data on the Fermi cards. I found this site and thought FOR SURE, that I would find more data. Wrong. Here's my take: Right now, Nvidia is losing HUGE market share to ATI in the discrete GPU market. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, Nvidia's ultimate goal is to make money and build capital. In the current economic climate, if they truly had an amazing product on the verge of launching, they would be releasing all kinds of data to dissuade people like myself from dropping their dollars on ATI GPU's. A couple of years ago, I was in a financial position to be able to drop $1,200.00 on a couple of GPU's for SLI. Now, forget it. So, do I go out and drop $390.00 on a proven XFX 5870 which will handily run any game out there for the next two years, OR, do I wait another three to four weeks and hope that Nvidia, has some strange secret plan to release reasonably priced GPU's that will kick the snot out of the 5xxx series of cards. I am now extremely pessimistic on this. I think if Nvidia really had the horsepower on the new cards, they would be saving market share and screaming numbers from the rooftops. I have always loved Nvidia, but I'm not so sure any more. Any thoughts?

02-26-10, 01:00 PM

Welcome to the forums preacher...One thing we know is that March 26th is the officially announced launch date.

As much as I would like to upgrade right now, another few weeks isn't that long to wait, so i'll be doing just that.

That said, if 5870's suddenly drop in price by 20-30% or more, I'll only be able to guess they got their hands on some legitimate info...and will make my decision accordingly.

Fotis · 02-26-10, 01:52 PM

Even if the 480GTX performs on par with a 5870 would anyone in his right mind expect from an Nvidia PR person to openly admit to it 1 month before launch.

Best thing is to wait and see.

preacher35 · 02-26-10, 02:09 PM

"On par"? On Par is adequate but not stellar. Which is my exactly my point. Those of us who work in the market understand that when you have a product about to come out that will squash your main competitor, you release that data to save market share and build up interest and demand. That makes for fantastic PR. To keep it in the dark for months, while YOUR CHIEF COMPETITOR takes market share, builds brand trust and capital, is economic lunacy in this climate.... unless of course, your product is just "on par". Because, if it is just "on par" then rumors and secrecy is ALL that you've got to work with. Now, if the 400 series cards are amazing and reasonably priced, well, I know that I will eat crow. But, if that is the case, then the Nvidia marketing people should be filing for unemployment....

josiahsuarez · 02-26-10, 04:00 PM

"amazing" and "reasonably priced" are mutually exclusive terms.

preacher35 · 02-26-10, 04:42 PM

Quote:

"amazing" and "reasonably priced" are mutually exclusive terms.

Yes, good point... so let me clarify: by "reasonably priced", I'm referring to price-points competitive with their respective markets... or in other words, priced to compete. I understand that Nvidia can price their products at any amount that they wish. However, to compete in the American market (which is currently in a deep recession) they have to compete with ATI/AMD and thus competitively price their cards at or near the competitor's comparable market niche product. Granted, Nvidia's descrete GPU market is only a portion of their annual revenue, the GeForce series is still their name brand flagship; it's what defines them as a hardware producer. If they do not competitively price their cards this time around, their gonna lose a TON of their enthusiast market. And based on what I've read on this and other forums, THEY ALREADY ARE! Two years ago, I would have TOTALLY disagreed with what I just stated. But, I am a microcosm of the situation: a die-hard loyal Nvidia GPU enthusiast, whom is feeling the affects of the slow economy and am weighing the pros and cons of switching brands for the time being. I can assure you that those people out their buying their first vid card will be a hundred times more likely to go with the less expensive brand which is CURRENTLY available, then myself. I hope that I am wrong... but in these matters, I'm usually not.

SignorSalad · 02-26-10, 07:34 PM

Preacher, like you, I have been solidly green team since a bad experience with a radeon 9700 way back. Very recently I came to the same conclusions you are struggling with and find myself with a new 5870 in my system as of a few days ago, replacing what seems like a now ancient 8800gtx-sli setup.

One thing I never concerned myself with before when making a vid card purchase was the idle and load power consumption of the card. Sticker shock power bills have made me look for improvements in power usage for most all of the devices, lights, and appliances in my house. I finally decided that even if the 480 is fast enough to handily beat the 5870, its probably going to have an extremely hard time coming close to its fantastic power consumption profile if there is even a kernel of truth to the rumors and FUD. Once I reached this point, I figured why wait and went ahead and ordered the 5870.

About that power usage: I have a lynnfield i7 with speedstep enabled in addition to the new 5870. I almost couldn't believe it when I looked, but my whole system now measures 66-75 watts @ idle or light use - as measured from the load on the UPS that only has the system plugged into it. At load during crysis or unigine dx11 its around ~190watts. The same system with the 8800gtx-sli setup was idling at 160-170 and was well over 300 watts at load sometimes getting near 400. Not only did this thing cut the power usage of my main system by ~50%+, I'm getting a cooler computer room to boot. No small thing in Florida.

I'm still getting used to the red teams product, but I'm beyond thrilled at the power savings, while at the same time getting enough raw power to handle pretty much anything I ask of it. I find it highly ironic that the red team has the "greener" product line right now. If nVidia comes out with something that just blows away the 5870 but also has the same sort of power profile count me in, but right now, I just don't see it happening.

preacher35 · 02-26-10, 09:19 PM

Quote:

I'm still getting used to the red teams product, but I'm beyond thrilled at the power savings, while at the same time getting enough raw power to handle pretty much anything I ask of it. I find it highly ironic that the red team has the "greener" product line right now. If nVidia comes out with something that just blows away the 5870 but also has the same sort of power profile count me in, but right now, I just don't see it happening.

Also an excellent point, SignorSalad. Yes, for you being in Florida, and myself in Texas, the power consumption = heat = higher electric bill, is an important economic factor to consider. I am, admittedly, glad that you disclosed the power savings that you are getting with your 5870. It makes it that much more attractive choice for myself and damn well nearly convinces me to go ahead and get the 5870.

josiahsuarez · 02-27-10, 01:18 AM

guys, I'm becoming afraid. I'm also uncertain and doubtful. I mean, we'll see how things turn out, hopefully these new nevidia thingies will be great, but the way things are looking that seems fearfully and uncertainly doubtful.

preacher35 · 02-27-10, 03:49 AM

Ahhhh, do not be afraid. If the Fermi cards turn out to be awesome, then great. If they turn out to be flops, well... that's what makes competition good for the consumer. Nvidia will work harder to do better on the next go. If it wasn't for competition, there would literally be no motivation for technological advancement nor innovation... This is a good thing.

Enrico_be · 02-27-10, 03:57 AM

We must have faith in our green team

!

I say that all will be surprisingly good after the launch date

Yes, they are late and yes there are a lot of rumors but only Nvidia knows what Fermi is worth. If it beats the fastest single ATI GPU such as the HD5870 I will be very happy and it is likely that will be the case

Iruwen · 02-27-10, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by preacher35

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, Nvidia's ultimate goal is to make money and build capital.

That's true for any company on the world, including ATI.
I don't think Nvidia is really worried about ATI, so I wouldn't be too sure about their intentions concerning the long lasting NDA. Their sales in the discrete desktop graphics market increased by 19% (from 11/09 to 01/10 as compared to the previous quarter) and their profit by 22% (to a total of more than 130 million dollars). There's nothing to worry about.
The enthusiast market isn't really important for overall sales, that one's just for prestige.

02-26-10, 12:48 PM	#13
preacher35 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 9	Re: All rumors and FUD at this point ! I'm new here and this is my first post on this board. But all of this conjecture on the new Fermi cards motivated me to give my position. I have been an Nvidia die-hard enthusiast for years and years: MX4000, FX5200, 6600GT, 7800GTX, 8800GTX SLI, GTX 285.... This time, however, I'm not so sure. I never, in my wildest imagination thought that I would find myself actually considering an ATI card. It almost seems sacrilegious. But, the only reason I found this board is exactly the reason that I feel that Nvidia has blown it this time. I'm only here because I have been in the market for a new GPU for two months now and I cannot get much, IF ANY data on the Fermi cards. I found this site and thought FOR SURE, that I would find more data. Wrong. Here's my take: Right now, Nvidia is losing HUGE market share to ATI in the discrete GPU market. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, Nvidia's ultimate goal is to make money and build capital. In the current economic climate, if they truly had an amazing product on the verge of launching, they would be releasing all kinds of data to dissuade people like myself from dropping their dollars on ATI GPU's. A couple of years ago, I was in a financial position to be able to drop $1,200.00 on a couple of GPU's for SLI. Now, forget it. So, do I go out and drop $390.00 on a proven XFX 5870 which will handily run any game out there for the next two years, OR, do I wait another three to four weeks and hope that Nvidia, has some strange secret plan to release reasonably priced GPU's that will kick the snot out of the 5xxx series of cards. I am now extremely pessimistic on this. I think if Nvidia really had the horsepower on the new cards, they would be saving market share and screaming numbers from the rooftops. I have always loved Nvidia, but I'm not so sure any more. Any thoughts?

02-26-10, 01:00 PM	#14
grey_1 Guest Posts: n/a	Re: All rumors and FUD at this point ! Welcome to the forums preacher...One thing we know is that March 26th is the officially announced launch date. As much as I would like to upgrade right now, another few weeks isn't that long to wait, so i'll be doing just that. That said, if 5870's suddenly drop in price by 20-30% or more, I'll only be able to guess they got their hands on some legitimate info...and will make my decision accordingly.

02-26-10, 01:52 PM	#15
Fotis Radeforce GTX7970 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Greece Posts: 1,346	Re: All rumors and FUD at this point ! Even if the 480GTX performs on par with a 5870 would anyone in his right mind expect from an Nvidia PR person to openly admit to it 1 month before launch. Best thing is to wait and see. __________________ Intel Core i7 920 @3.8GHz\|Corsair H50\|MSI X58 Platinum\|3x2GB Mushkin DDR3 1600 7-8-7-20\|Gigabyte Radeon 7970 OC 3GB windforce\|Samsung SSD 830 256GB/Intel SSD X25M 80GB\|Seagate Ext. 2TB eSata\|Corsair TX 750W\|Microsoft Wireless Laser Desktop 7000\|Silverstone Grandia GD-01 MX Black\|Dell UltraSharp U2412M\| Windows 7 x64 Pro

02-26-10, 02:09 PM	#16
preacher35 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 9	Re: All rumors and FUD at this point ! "On par"? On Par is adequate but not stellar. Which is my exactly my point. Those of us who work in the market understand that when you have a product about to come out that will squash your main competitor, you release that data to save market share and build up interest and demand. That makes for fantastic PR. To keep it in the dark for months, while YOUR CHIEF COMPETITOR takes market share, builds brand trust and capital, is economic lunacy in this climate.... unless of course, your product is just "on par". Because, if it is just "on par" then rumors and secrecy is ALL that you've got to work with. Now, if the 400 series cards are amazing and reasonably priced, well, I know that I will eat crow. But, if that is the case, then the Nvidia marketing people should be filing for unemployment....

02-26-10, 04:00 PM	#17
josiahsuarez Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 739	Re: All rumors and FUD at this point ! "amazing" and "reasonably priced" are mutually exclusive terms.

02-26-10, 07:34 PM	#19
SignorSalad Yarrr! Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 244	Re: All rumors and FUD at this point ! Preacher, like you, I have been solidly green team since a bad experience with a radeon 9700 way back. Very recently I came to the same conclusions you are struggling with and find myself with a new 5870 in my system as of a few days ago, replacing what seems like a now ancient 8800gtx-sli setup. One thing I never concerned myself with before when making a vid card purchase was the idle and load power consumption of the card. Sticker shock power bills have made me look for improvements in power usage for most all of the devices, lights, and appliances in my house. I finally decided that even if the 480 is fast enough to handily beat the 5870, its probably going to have an extremely hard time coming close to its fantastic power consumption profile if there is even a kernel of truth to the rumors and FUD. Once I reached this point, I figured why wait and went ahead and ordered the 5870. About that power usage: I have a lynnfield i7 with speedstep enabled in addition to the new 5870. I almost couldn't believe it when I looked, but my whole system now measures 66-75 watts @ idle or light use - as measured from the load on the UPS that only has the system plugged into it. At load during crysis or unigine dx11 its around ~190watts. The same system with the 8800gtx-sli setup was idling at 160-170 and was well over 300 watts at load sometimes getting near 400. Not only did this thing cut the power usage of my main system by ~50%+, I'm getting a cooler computer room to boot. No small thing in Florida. I'm still getting used to the red teams product, but I'm beyond thrilled at the power savings, while at the same time getting enough raw power to handle pretty much anything I ask of it. I find it highly ironic that the red team has the "greener" product line right now. If nVidia comes out with something that just blows away the 5870 but also has the same sort of power profile count me in, but right now, I just don't see it happening. __________________ --- mostly new stuff ---

02-27-10, 01:18 AM	#21
josiahsuarez Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 739	Re: All rumors and FUD at this point ! guys, I'm becoming afraid. I'm also uncertain and doubtful. I mean, we'll see how things turn out, hopefully these new nevidia thingies will be great, but the way things are looking that seems fearfully and uncertainly doubtful.

02-27-10, 03:49 AM	#22
preacher35 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 9	Re: All rumors and FUD at this point ! Ahhhh, do not be afraid. If the Fermi cards turn out to be awesome, then great. If they turn out to be flops, well... that's what makes competition good for the consumer. Nvidia will work harder to do better on the next go. If it wasn't for competition, there would literally be no motivation for technological advancement nor innovation... This is a good thing.

02-27-10, 03:57 AM	#23
Enrico_be Registered User Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 138	Re: All rumors and FUD at this point ! We must have faith in our green team ! I say that all will be surprisingly good after the launch date Yes, they are late and yes there are a lot of rumors but only Nvidia knows what Fermi is worth. If it beats the fastest single ATI GPU such as the HD5870 I will be very happy and it is likely that will be the case