A little disappointed in Nvidia

[Bee_Dee_3_Dee]

Originally Posted by shadow001

Well put it this way,even if we don't pay attention to the power or noise or price issues and concentrate only on the FPS performance delivered,and while the GTX480 is faster overall,in practical terms,show me a single game where the end user would be playing a game smoothly at a given setting on the GTX480,where under the same settings,it wouldn't be playable with the HD5870 cards.


Keep in mind that playable for me means averaging 60 FPS or close to it,which ensures that dips into the 20~30 FPS range are few and far between,which definitely doesn't qualify as smooth by any standard when a given card hits FPS values that low,especially in fast paced first person shooters.


Based on the conclusions from a fair amount of reviews,the 10% average performance gap between the GTX480 and the HD5870 simply doesn't allow that to happen in practical terms....If it's too slow to be smooth by the HD5870 at extreme settings(read 30 FPS or lower average),then the overall situation isn't much better with the GTX480,even if it's 10 FPS faster,and many times on fair amount of games the gap isn't that large....It's still not enough of a performance gap between both basically.


The faster FPS argument for the sake of faster FPS doesn't work if there isn't practical benefits in the real world gaming experience....If going for the sake of faster benchmark numbers,then the GTX480 wins for sure over the HD5870.

IDK if the following pic can be inserted for long so it is from Here (BattleForge DX11 1920 x 1200 - Maximum Quality - SSAO High).



The GTX480 @60.9 FPS is 27% faster here compared to the HD5870 @47.2.

So I don't know about where you're getting 10%. (JK. You mean over-all. I know. And I'll have to work on that later.)

Too bad they don't show minimum frames. Well, good for you they don't Shadow001. (JK)

Note: The GTX480 only costs $79 more than an HD5870. And that is ONLY 31% more!

So, 27% improvement for 31% more.

OK. I know. I know. I'm talking like a car salesman. I have to crunch a lot more numbers before I make a claim like that. sry

But the GTX480 drivers maturing are a bigger factor than you are acting like they are Shadow001.

I'll post my 13, GTX480 Reviews/Benchmarks tomorrow. I got to crash for now. c ya Shadow001.

( That "001" in your nik, and your excellent English, gives away how intelligent you are. You should take the "001" out of your nik if you don't want to give away how intelligent you are.)

[Bee_Dee_3_Dee]

Originally Posted by Toss3

An extra 75$? How about an extra 200$. Also you cannot know if the GTX 480 is going to receive drivers that are going to perform better so comparing a 5870 with older drivers to a GTX 480 isn't fair. Nvidia has always had pretty good drivers at launch and no card of theirs has received 30% gains. You also need to keep in mind that it could take up to half a year for the perfect drivers to come out and by that time ATI is bound to have something better on the market.

The GTX 480 performs very good right now, but imho it should have outperformed two 5850s in order to be considered a good deal. No amount of updated drivers is going to bring its performance to that level.

It is only $79 extra and NOT and extra $200!

Where did you get that number from Toss3? Don't answer.

But most important of all, your being off by $121, should remove anything you thought about the price being too high. Right? Or would you like me to tell nV to reduce it another $121 for Toss3's sake? (jk) Because I'll freaking do it. Don't make me.

[shadow001]

Originally Posted by Bee_Dee_3_Dee

It is only $79 extra and NOT and extra $200!

Where did you get that number from Toss3? Don't answer.

But most important of all, your being off by $121, should remove anything you thought about the price being too high. Right? Or would you like me to tell nV to reduce it another $121 for Toss3's sake? (jk) Because I'll freaking do it. Don't make me.

That's if you can get them at Nvidia's 499$ MSRP though.....Much like the HD5870 is supposed to sell at 399$ at ATI's MSRP or that the HD5970's MSRP is listed at 599$,yet all of them are still at 700$ on retail shelves since last november.


I bought my pair of HD5970's since last november btw...Quad crossfire FTW.

[Bee_Dee_3_Dee]

Originally Posted by shadow001

That's if you can get them at Nvidia's 499$ MSRP though.....Much like the HD5870 is supposed to sell at 399$ at ATI's MSRP or that the HD5970's MSRP is listed at 599$,yet all of them are still at 700$ on retail shelves since last november.


I bought my pair of HD5970's since last november btw...Quad crossfire FTW.

They aren't going to say $499 and sell them higher. geez. give me a break Shadow001 if all the ppl at newegg that selected auto-notify, didn't get one for $499, then NewEgg would get sued. Plenty of ppl will get them for $499.

Looks like crossfire 5870's still kicks some arse.

[Bee_Dee_3_Dee]

Originally Posted by methimpikehoses

Looks like crossfire 5870's still kicks some arse.

And GTX480SLI beats it by 32% in that pic (BattleForge DX11 1920 x 1200 - Maximum Quality - SSAO High).

[shadow001]

Originally Posted by Bee_Dee_3_Dee

They aren't going to say $499 and sell them higher. geez. give me a break Shadow001 if all the ppl at newegg that selected auto-notify, didn't get one for $499, then NewEgg would get sued. Plenty of ppl will get them for $499.

All i know is that i bought my pair of HD5970's at 699$ back on november 23rd,wich was the very first day that the cards became available to retail,and ATI had set the price for those cards at 599$,yet the demand for them was so strong that they not only disapeared very quickly,but retail stores jacked up the prices to increase their profit margins anyhow.


Let's see what happens on april 12th when retail stores start getting their cards....If they sell whatever nvidia can supply very quickly,it's a given that retailers will want to increase their profit margins.

[Bee_Dee_3_Dee]

Originally Posted by shadow001

All i know is that i bought my pair of HD5970's at 699$ back on november 23rd,wich was the very first day that the cards became available to retail,and ATI had set the price for those cards at 599$,yet the demand for them was so strong that they not only disapeared very quickly,but retail stores jacked up the prices to increase their profit margins anyhow.


Let's see what happens on april 12th when retail stores start getting their cards....If they sell whatever nvidia can supply very quickly,it's a given that retailers will want to increase their profit margins.

In this situation they will be lucky to sell them for wat they promised their customers. After all the other disappointments the past six months, nV fans will leave nV if nV raises the prices.

[shadow001]

Originally Posted by Bee_Dee_3_Dee

In this situation they will be lucky to sell them for wat they promised their customers. After all the other disappointments the past six months, nV fans will leave nV if nV raises the prices.

Btw...Here's one comparison i pulled from the same anandtech article you got the battleforge results:





The situation is completely reversed and a sub 300$ card like the HD5850 is beating the GTX480 cards in battlefield bad company 2...


The MSRP isn't a promise to their end customers at all,it means the manufacturers SUGGESTED retail price for the cards,and we do live in a capitalist system where demand drives the pricing afterall,so given the limited supply of cards available due to TSMC's limited volume production,the prices might stay pretty high no matter what.

[Xion X2]

Originally Posted by Bee_Dee_3_Dee

And GTX480SLI beats it by 32% in that pic (BattleForge DX11 1920 x 1200 - Maximum Quality - SSAO High).

Why are you looking at just one game, again?

How about this one:



Or maybe this one:



http://firingsquad.com/hardware/nvid...0_performance/

Two of the best looking games out there, and pretty easy to find benches of 5870 Crossfire running right with or outperforming 480 SLI.

Now I'm not posting these to say that 5870 Crossfire is stronger, but you need to look at more than one title to get an accurate picture of performance. There are several titles that 5870 Crossfire competes quite well in.

[Heinz68]

Originally Posted by Bee_Dee_3_Dee

Sry I should have asked, "How many GTX480 Reviews/Benchmarks have you Bookmarked?"

The reason that it is not a useless question is that you saying, "a site that has 51 Reviews/Benchmarks listed" exists doesn't tell me anything about how much you have actually looked at the numbers (GTX480 Reviews/Benchmarks) and read the reviews. The reviews are written by experts.

You're not more knowledgeable than the professional experts that write the GTX480 Reviews are you?

To continue on the question, if you had said you Bookmarked say, 10, 15, or maybe even 20, GTX480 Reviews/Benchmarks, I could understand just how odd it is that you think the GTX480 is loosing so much to the HD5970. Because it is not. And you may not have looked at enough Benchmarks to realize it.

I think looking at 10, GTX480 Reviews/Benchmarks, and studying them is an acceptable number. But if you don't read and study at least ten of them you can easily be unaware of the facts.

Now with that said, I will tell you that I have read 13, GTX480 Reviews/Benchmarks and I plan to collect many many more. Before I bought my GTX295 last year I read through and studied over 10 GTX295 Reviews/Benchmarks. And ended up with with a grand total 23.

Here's a post I made on 01-21-2009 with all 23, GTX295 Reviews/Benchmarks:

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...&postcount=138

So, if you want to really prove that what you're saying is true, you need the numbers to back it up. Ever heard of the saying, "It ain't braggin' if you can back it up ...period"?

Show some numbers and prove what you're claiming.

Because the numbers I'm looking at include the HD5970 loosing to the GTX480 in not just one Benchmark but several. And after the driver updates it's only going to get worse for the HD5970 and NOT better.

You're complete waste of time. It is you who has a HUGE problem to get it that ATI has the fastest card on the market. It is you who needs to read more GTX 480 reviews not me. Read one more time what I said:

Originally Posted by Heinz68

Also useless question. The answer is I didn't bookmark any. There is a site that has 51 Reviews/Benchmarks listed, I'm sure there are more of them. I only did read few reviews on the major sites and few others "Conclusion" only. There is no need for me to read more, have no time for that.

Every site concluded that GTX 480 has the fastest GPU no argument about that. Did not see any site that concluded GTX 480 is the fastest Graphic Card. I think even some of the biggest NVIDIA shills would have hard time to argue that, so I don't know where are you coming from.

I hope this is end of the argument at least for me.

Your link to 23, GTX295 Reviews/Benchmarks you posted on 01-21-2009 is completely irrelevant to the subject, even more so since I said myself in my first post this thread that the GTX295 was the fastest card on the market,also here.

I believe the subject here is HD 5870 vs GTX 480 buying decision. If the GTX 480 was on average faster than the HD 5970, I would get one as soon as available, don't know how many times I need to say it.

I already said that few times even few months ago when some NVIDIA shills and fanboys predicted that the GTX 480 is going to be 50% faster than the HD 5870. But I'm sure not going to downgrade to GTX 480, how hard is it for you to get it? If you don't see it as downgrade that is your problem. Actually not since you don't need to deal with it.

Right now my ONLY upgrade option if I wanted to go NVIDIA would be GTX 480 SLI = $1000 plus tax, for SLI. I might also need water cooling for the SLI about another $500 or at least new mobo in order to run the cards on slot 1 and 3, might even need both mobo and water-cooling. I also would not downgrade the mobo and the ASUS Rampage III is going to cost at least $400.

I don't care about your drivers SPECULATION about how faster the GTX 480 is going to get. I already did answer it here.

If the GTX 480 ever becomes worthy upgrade to my HD 5970 I sure will deal with it at that time.

If i did listen to all the fanboys SPECULATIONS how fast the GTX 480 is going to be and coming out just about every month since October last year, I would have never bought the HD 5970.

[Sowk]

Originally Posted by slaWter

Or 5850 CF for that matter. But that's what I'm talking about. Those expectation are unrealistic.
I really don't get why people assumed that the new nV cards will start a new generation of cards

Because they are almost a generation late in terms of time span...

Plus 1 GTX480 uses more power then 2 ATI's
&
Is hotter then 2 ATI's

I'm sorry but Nvidia has failed this time. (This is coming from a 5+ year Nvidia supporter in a row now.)

They will get back on top, but they need to really start working on getting Heat, and power down... and Fast.

ATI is probably almost done with there next generation GPU'S and now just going to wait another 6 months before releasing them.

Nvidia has not even begun to think about the next generation, and is in no position to do so as they already maxed out power and heat consumption.

It would be ok if all they had to do was work on getting a faster chip out with 512mb memory bus, and double the unified shaders. But that’s not on the drawing board yet, and can't be until they figure out how the hell they will cool and power the thing first.