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Old 05-29-10, 07:56 AM   #541
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Default Re: Official "I just got a Geforce GTX 465/470/480" thread

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Originally Posted by mailman2 View Post
Thats because the HD5870 and GTX 480 weren't out yet. Faster GPUs need faster CPUs.
That makes sense.

I have the weekend or longer to think about it, we'll see what happens. Thanks for all the advice.
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Old 05-29-10, 08:18 AM   #542
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Default Re: Official "I just got a Geforce GTX 465/470/480" thread

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But why not overclocking your current CPU? It's very easy and should result in quite a nice performance boost.
This.
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Old 05-29-10, 08:49 AM   #543
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Default Re: Official "I just got a Geforce GTX 465/470/480" thread

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That makes sense.

I have the weekend or longer to think about it, we'll see what happens. Thanks for all the advice.
I know you said before overclocking was out of the question. But let me ask why? I've had a few Q9550s, they are easy to overclock and if you could even only bump it to 3.4 or 3.6 you'd remove a lot of the bottleneck. The Q9550 isn't bottlenecking because of the technology, its because of the clock speed. The problem I have with all these reviews that tell you - for gaming you don't need to upgrade your CPU is because they are running them all stock and the clock speed is limiting the performance. So a 2.8 Ghz Q9550 vs a i7 @ 2.8ghz won't be a huge difference. But start overclocking and you will see both give great performance boosts that will affect your gaming. You will see a much bigger performance gain from overclocking your current CPU vs upgrading to a stock i7. My Q9550s ran 4.0 and the other 4.1 ghz and they weren't a bottleneck at all. When I upgraded to my i7 there was a slight gain but not huge and this was because my Q9550s were so overclocked.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that you don't need to upgrade to an i7 (in fact after doing it myself I'd say it wasn't really worth it - but I sold my 775 setup for about the same price as the upgrade to i7 however I went from 8GB ddr2 to only 4GB dd3) to get the performance you are looking for. Pickup a $50 aftermarket cooler and overclock the Q9550 a bit and you will be better off. Then give the HD5870 another shot.
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Old 05-29-10, 10:39 AM   #544
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Default Re: Official "I just got a Geforce GTX 465/470/480" thread

I have always had stable systems... when people complain about crashes and such I point out that I haven't had an issue running a game in years, and maybe 1 or 2 games in the last decade.

I read developer interviews and the tweakguides.com guides and it all says not to overclock as no matter what it will harm stability and result in lots of little errors you do not notice at first but cause issues down the road. The most persuasive was a top developer at Valve's comments about it on the Steam forums.

Also, I used the "turbo" mode of my mobo once, the PQ5 Pro Turbo, and it causes instant problems with the games I was using at the time... Ghostbusters' videos were sped up and distorted and Fallout 3 crashed for the first time EVER. Turning off turbo mode fixed the videos and Fallout 3 has never crashed since.

I just don't see it as worth the trouble and risk and potential stability issues.

More to the point though, my GTX 275 maxes every game except for GTA4 and Metro 2033. The main reason I wanted to upgrade was because of things like Borderlands dropping from 60fps to 35fps suddenly when a lot of shadows are on screen, or Farcry 2 bouncing from 60fps to 45fps constantly and making gameplay feel stuttery. These types of small issues are the first thing I tried with the 5870 and it offered me no performance increase. I loaded up Borderlands and in the town of New Haven when I turn the corner to the weapon shop I still go from 60fps to 40fps suddenly... happened on the GTX 275, happens on the 5870.

For overall performance I am happy with what I have, I wanted a card that solved those other issues. The 5870 did not do so. Games did not suddenly run at a rock solid 60fps that didn't before, other than Bad Company 2.

Maybe I expected too much... probably because I usually upgrade every other generation, not one to the next. Looking at benchmarks on tomshardware and such I see that when they talk of the 5870 "blowing away" the GTX 280, it's only getting 10fps more.

I think I just wanted too much. So I feel like I should return it, upgrade next year to a new CPU, mobo and RAM, then wait for the premier next-gen cards.
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Old 05-29-10, 11:40 AM   #545
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Default Re: Official "I just got a Geforce GTX 465/470/480" thread

Pfft. Overclocking is perfectly safe and reliable. All you need to do is download Prime95 to test the overclock with, and if it passes, you will never have a problem.

I've been overclocking for the last 4-5 years and have always had a stable system through this method. No unusual crashes or instabilities. These come most of the time from not supplying enough voltage to the processor or FSB, but most motherboards these days are dummy-proof and increase these automatically for you.

I have a Xeon quad right now that came stock at 2.66GHz and is running at 3.8GHz and hasn't crashed once in the last two months I've used it. And I'm running intense 3-D rendering apps and math calculation programs like Prime95 on it daily.

A Q9550 will overclock 600 MHz without even a voltage bump. All that requires is increasing the FSB in the bios.

Find some overclocking tutorials and learn how to do this. It's truly worth it.
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Old 05-29-10, 12:06 PM   #546
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Default Re: Official "I just got a Geforce GTX 465/470/480" thread

Yep, overclocking is perfectly fine as long as you don't push things unreasonably far without knowing what you're doing.

I've overclocked every system I've owned for the past 7 years and I've never lost a CPU from it. The first system I did a significant overclock on in 2003 was my Athlon XP 1.47Ghz running at 2.0Ghz and it is STILL running at those clocks to this day. The settings haven't been touched, its actually been running for at least half of the time its been built and I don't think its even been cleaned out in the last 5 years. Its perfectly stable.

I've also overclocked most of my graphics cards as well, even going back to my first Voodoo 3 card in 1999... though the Geforce GTX 400 series is the first to be truly worth the trouble. You almost always see a linear performance increase with overclocking. 20% overclock gets you very close to 20% performance increase for free. That's the difference between a $330 GTX 470 and a $500 GTX 480 most of the time. Count me in.
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Old 05-29-10, 01:07 PM   #547
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Default Re: Official "I just got a Geforce GTX 465/470/480" thread

Well I can look up a stock cooling Q9550 overclock and try it out, I am just saying the first sign of anything like I had when I hit the turbo button and I'm out. I notice none of you responded to that part.
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Old 05-29-10, 01:12 PM   #548
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Default Re: Official "I just got a Geforce GTX 465/470/480" thread

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Originally Posted by slaWter View Post
That's probably because no one here uses automatic overclocking aids
Yep.

Automatic overclocking is almost always bad. Never do anything that claims to circumvent hours of trial and error and stability testing with a single button press.
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Old 05-29-10, 01:32 PM   #549
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Default Re: Official "I just got a Geforce GTX 465/470/480" thread

I stopped OCing for a while now, but it has been my experience that if you leave everything stock you generally will have a very stable system with almost no trouble at all, but once you start OCing, you need to put a lot of effort into testing to make sure the system stable. I have never had any bad experiences when OCing, but most of the time the gains I got from OCing were just not worth the effort.

Also if you didn't buy some decent RAM to begin with it can adversely affect the stability of your machine when you try OCing. So if for example you got the slower or to spec RAM to save money when you bought your components, and now you are having issues when you hit the turbo button, then I would say the ram is the one having the fit because of the OCing.
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Old 05-29-10, 01:36 PM   #550
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Default Re: Official "I just got a Geforce GTX 465/470/480" thread

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Originally Posted by NarcissistZero View Post
I have always had stable systems... when people complain about crashes and such I point out that I haven't had an issue running a game in years, and maybe 1 or 2 games in the last decade.

I read developer interviews and the tweakguides.com guides and it all says not to overclock as no matter what it will harm stability and result in lots of little errors you do not notice at first but cause issues down the road. The most persuasive was a top developer at Valve's comments about it on the Steam forums.

Also, I used the "turbo" mode of my mobo once, the PQ5 Pro Turbo, and it causes instant problems with the games I was using at the time... Ghostbusters' videos were sped up and distorted and Fallout 3 crashed for the first time EVER. Turning off turbo mode fixed the videos and Fallout 3 has never crashed since.

I just don't see it as worth the trouble and risk and potential stability issues.

More to the point though, my GTX 275 maxes every game except for GTA4 and Metro 2033. The main reason I wanted to upgrade was because of things like Borderlands dropping from 60fps to 35fps suddenly when a lot of shadows are on screen, or Farcry 2 bouncing from 60fps to 45fps constantly and making gameplay feel stuttery. These types of small issues are the first thing I tried with the 5870 and it offered me no performance increase. I loaded up Borderlands and in the town of New Haven when I turn the corner to the weapon shop I still go from 60fps to 40fps suddenly... happened on the GTX 275, happens on the 5870.

For overall performance I am happy with what I have, I wanted a card that solved those other issues. The 5870 did not do so. Games did not suddenly run at a rock solid 60fps that didn't before, other than Bad Company 2.

Maybe I expected too much... probably because I usually upgrade every other generation, not one to the next. Looking at benchmarks on tomshardware and such I see that when they talk of the 5870 "blowing away" the GTX 280, it's only getting 10fps more.

I think I just wanted too much. So I feel like I should return it, upgrade next year to a new CPU, mobo and RAM, then wait for the premier next-gen cards.
Running Far Cry 2 benchmark 1680x1050 8xAA/16AF all settings maxed (ultra) the HD5870 gave me avg fps of 85 with min of about 65. The GTX 480 gave me avg fps of 120 with min of 88. Again, both my CPU and GPUs were overclocked though. I dont know what res or AA you were running but maybe you can run a benchmark with my settings and compare.
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Old 05-29-10, 04:01 PM   #551
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Default Re: Official "I just got a Geforce GTX 465/470/480" thread

I tried Metro 2033 and add that to Battlefield BC2 as a game that greatly benefits from it... went from medium and 30fps to high and 50fps. Still, it's not ultra high with AA on and in DX11... that gets me 13fps.

I'm sure you guys are right about the overclock and how it would effect performance, but I am also sure lead developers at Valve know a thing or two as well. In the end I think my main problem is wanting too much from the card, or needing to upgrade all my specs across the board, and I am not going to do that right now. By the time the next generation of cards come out, the GTX 500s and such, I'll be able to just build an all new rig from scratch. That sounds more like what I need to do.

I'll keep looking into it over the weekend though... if I can overclock my CPU while I still have the 5870 in there and see some amazing advantages then I might hold on to it.
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Old 05-29-10, 08:16 PM   #552
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Default Re: Official "I just got a Geforce GTX 465/470/480" thread

I don't know if you'll see great gains with your setup or not, but overclocking really is incredibly simple. Keep an eye on 3-4 settings in your BIOS and download two programs: Prime95 and CoreTemp. I'll explain how to use these below.

Intel's processors are just made for OC'ng. The only things you really need to pay attention to are your memory speed (always make sure it's half of your FSB speed) your CPU voltage and your northbridge/chipset voltage. Since you're a beginner, you'd probably do best to set both the CPU voltage and NB voltage to "auto" and just increase the FSB a little at a time and test it with Prime95. I had a Q9500 and was able to get it to 3.9GHz stable. A friend of mine has had his to 4.3GHz stable, but it's one of the revisions with better stepping.

When you run Prime95, run a torture test on "small FFTs" and make sure that you see four threads running inside the window. You'll see it running a series of prime number calculations. Let it run for at least four hours. If after then, all the threads are still running calculations, then you're stable.

While running Prime, download the CoreTemp program so that you can monitor your temps while Prime95 is running. All cores should be at 65c or below just to be on the safe side. Temps will increase on each with the more you overclock or increase the CPU voltage.
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