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Old 07-22-10, 11:48 AM   #1
josiahsuarez
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Default 28nm for graphics "to arrive in late 2011"

not unexpected... the red brick wall slowly approaches

http://www.fudzilla.com/graphics/gra...s-in-late-2011
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28nm graphics process to arrive in late 2011

More than a year from now

For both Nvidia and ATI, it will take more than a year to see the first high performance graphics chips in 28nm shipping to customers.

The reason is quite obvious. Both major fab players, TSMC and Global Foundries, will need time to get the 28nm process to where they want it. TSMC wants to be extra careful with 28nm and its 40nm was all but easy and lack of 40nm chips in Q4 2009 and Q1 2010 cost ATI millions.

The 28nm demo production starts this year, it should be ready shortly and we are quite sure that next generation ATI gets developed in both TSMC and Global Foundries and the winner will get more business. Nvidia’s 28nm is TSMC only and this remains for the time being. However, if Global Foundries do a good job on ATI’s 28nm chips, then Nvidia might turn to them.

In late 2010 ATI will introduce its 40nm tweaked Radeon HD 6000 generation while Nvidia comes up with its GF104 based on similar chips and the rest of 2010 and first part of 2011 is exclusive for 40nm and nothing smaller, at least in graphics.
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Old 07-22-10, 07:28 PM   #2
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Default Re: 28nm for graphics "to arrive in late 2011"

I wonder just how small they can make these things. 28nm would mean each component is roughly 127 atoms across. Sooner or later the laws of physics would create some kind of barrier to electron migration I would think (IIRC a 12nm process exists, TSMC supposedly has plans for 15nm in 2013.)
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Old 07-22-10, 11:26 PM   #3
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Default Re: 28nm for graphics "to arrive in late 2011"

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Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK View Post
I wonder just how small they can make these things. 28nm would mean each component is roughly 127 atoms across. Sooner or later the laws of physics would create some kind of barrier to electron migration I would think (IIRC a 12nm process exists, TSMC supposedly has plans for 15nm in 2013.)
Yeah, I've heard that below 15 nm isn't possible due to quantum tunneling, although Intel seems to think they can make 11 nm. At 11 nm the insulator would supposedly be only five atoms thick, as I recall.
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Old 07-23-10, 02:17 AM   #4
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Default Re: 28nm for graphics "to arrive in late 2011"

I think the limit for silicon is 22nm. I read somewere that Intel 16nm will use hybrid tecnology with carbon nanotubes and 11nm will be nanotubes only
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Old 07-23-10, 10:07 AM   #5
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Default Re: 28nm for graphics "to arrive in late 2011"

Wow so yeah... we are reaching the limits fast....
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Old 07-23-10, 11:18 AM   #6
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Default Re: 28nm for graphics "to arrive in late 2011"

I think the absolute limit is still to be determined. what can be said is that the pace of transistor scaling has already slowed down due to that approaching limit, whatever it may be. this will likely get worse and worse with each process node going forward.

FWIW the International Technology Roadmap for Semiconductors has a process roadmap which is quite thorough:

http://www.itrs.net/Links/2009ITRS/2...09_ExecSum.pdf
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just two images from the full report. notably they divide their predictions between "near term" and "long term" at 16nm. that can perhaps be considered the point at which a lot of unknowns enter the picture, so anyones guess is equally valid from that point....
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Old 07-23-10, 12:47 PM   #7
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Default Re: 28nm for graphics "to arrive in late 2011"

The reason for the split at 16nm is that today's technology blocks at that point. There are ways TODAY to reach 16nm, but we know we need new lignt sources and mask material beyond that (extreme UV being the likely candidate, but with no known source as we speak).

It is impressive to see how much research and ingenuity is deployed into semi-conductor.
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Old 07-31-10, 01:08 AM   #8
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Default Re: 28nm for graphics "to arrive in late 2011"

My modern physics teacher in college called electron tunneling..."penetration of the classically forbidden region." My professor was female and was as bright as a tomato after that sentence...we all got a good laugh!
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Old 07-31-10, 11:10 AM   #9
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Default Re: 28nm for graphics "to arrive in late 2011"

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Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK View Post
I wonder just how small they can make these things. 28nm would mean each component is roughly 127 atoms across. Sooner or later the laws of physics would create some kind of barrier to electron migration I would think (IIRC a 12nm process exists, TSMC supposedly has plans for 15nm in 2013.)
280 atoms actually.
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Old 07-31-10, 03:35 PM   #10
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Default Re: 28nm for graphics "to arrive in late 2011"

this will help to bring this to an end so new technology can come about in the future.
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Old 07-31-10, 08:16 PM   #11
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Default Re: 28nm for graphics "to arrive in late 2011"

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Originally Posted by onmikesline View Post
this will help to bring this to an end so new technology can come about in the future.
We need software technology, to use the hardware technology. So far behind.
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Old 08-04-10, 05:13 PM   #12
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Default Re: 28nm for graphics "to arrive in late 2011"

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/d...f_of_2011.html
Quote:
28nm Graphics Chips from ATI Can Emerge Early Next Year
[08/03/2010 09:44 PM]
by Anton Shilov

Globalfoundries said that it would tape out the first chips using 28nm production technology as early as late this year and would initiate risk production early in 2011. It is highly likely that among the very first customers to use Globalfoundries' 28nm process technology will be ATI, graphics business unit of Advanced Micro Devices.

"For the 28nm process - aimed at both high performance and lower power devices - we will tape out products by the end of the year and start production in early 2011. The timing of when you will see products is customer-dependent but it is possible you could see them in [the first half of 2011]," an official for Globalfoundries said in an interview with The Register web-site.

Globalfoundries’ 28nm fabrication process will be available in two variants:

* The 28nm-HP (High Performance) variant will be optimized for leading-edge applications in such areas as graphics, game consoles, storage, networking and media encoding.
* The 28nm-SLP (Super Low Power) variant is optimized for wireless mobile applications such as baseband, application processors, and other handheld functions that require long battery lifetime.
was he ensuring plausible deniability?
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