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Old 08-13-10, 11:47 AM   #25
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Default Re: Help Defend Video Games In The Supreme Court!

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Originally Posted by Redeemed View Post
Yeah, I agree with this. Parents need to... *wait for it...*


PARENT!!!

They need to monitor what their kids watch, play, listen to, etc. If they don't want that responsibility they shouldn't have had kids. Since they do, be an adult and accept the responsibility.
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Old 08-13-10, 02:35 PM   #26
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Default Re: Help Defend Video Games In The Supreme Court!

This is a good law, I dont know where some of you people live but here in Texas I was never, ever, ever able to buy a M rated game when I was under 18, maybe in your state the stores were not enforcing it, but they were down here.

I saw a girl get turned down from buying CS:Source at Walmart about a year ago and I was lmao because that used to happen to me all the time when I was a kid. If kids want the game they should go through the parents. I dont even consider 18 yr olds to be adults but whatever thats not the issue here.

The question is do you want 10 year olds to be able to buy games of this nature.
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Old 08-13-10, 04:22 PM   #27
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Default Re: Help Defend Video Games In The Supreme Court!

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I just want to make sure I understand everyone. By supporting this you are essentially saying yes, games are too violent already and these games are causing harm to children so the government needs to step in because ESRB ratings don't fully call out violent games and parents can't stop their kids. Right, right, so developers can be even more careful to avoid a violent rating by ESRB and now the supreme court. Letís all make sure we never see another GTA again. I know this may be shocking to some of you but consoles and most PC games are for children. They are kids toys. We are all playing the same games. I'm 30 next month. IMO it is safe to say that because of things like this we will NEVER see another SOF or a kingpin or a voyeur or hot coffee. I guess I don't understand what the cause for this is. Doesn't gamestop ask for ID (17+) when selling an M rated game. When ESRB first came up I supported it. I though finally, developers are free to make the most violent and adult themed games they want because now there is a line. Except that line really mean do not cross cuz if you do your cutting off 50-60% of your revenue. Okay remove the dismemberment and blood. Okay now you can sell to 70% of the people. Fine remove all the strong language and all the gore. There, now you can sell to 90%. In walks Arnold saying, NO those bodies on the ground are still very violent. Can't you shoot flowers that send people to heaven. Okay to avoid your violent rating bodies will turn into a bed of flowers and you'll see a spirit fly up to the clouds. Arnold now says, okay now it's not too violent, parents go ahead and ignore your kids some more we have everything under control for you. I donít see how this put it on the parents at all. O I donít know where little Jonny got that, gamestop shouldnít have sold it to him Arnold told me so. Whhhaaaaaa. Maybe developers would actually step up and cross the line making the next carmageddon come to life but so far every push of that line makes my gaming even more of a childrenís pass time.Violence is violence and porn is porn, neither is for kids, we've been over this.

I donít support this. Sorry. -1
First off, paragraphs are your friend.

1) By supporting this, that's not we are saying at all. The ESRB ratings are already there, this would just enforce them legally.

2) Console games rated M are not for children. You are part of the problem if you think this way.

3) This law won't stop companies from making violent video games at all, I don't even know where you get that. This will change nothing as far as how and what content goes into a game. All this does is basically take the ESRB rating, which is already there, and make it into a law.
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Old 08-13-10, 08:15 PM   #28
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Default Re: Help Defend Video Games In The Supreme Court!

I support it. Without proper ratings and a way to enforce them. You can end up where game are banned for all ages, like here in AU.
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Old 08-14-10, 01:35 PM   #29
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Default Re: Help Defend Video Games In The Supreme Court!

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Originally Posted by Bah! View Post
First off, paragraphs are your friend.

1) By supporting this, that's not we are saying at all. The ESRB ratings are already there, this would just enforce them legally.

2) Console games rated M are not for children. You are part of the problem if you think this way.

3) This law won't stop companies from making violent video games at all, I don't even know where you get that. This will change nothing as far as how and what content goes into a game. All this does is basically take the ESRB rating, which is already there, and make it into a law.
Yeah I understand all that. I However I do very much disagree that games rated M are not targeted for children. Let me explain this. A game like GTA according to ESRB, me, you and others should not be played by children. GTA IV broke industry records with sales of around 3.7 million units on its first day of release and grossing more than $500 million in revenue in the first week, selling an estimated 6 million units worldwide. As of 9 June 2010, the game had sold over 17 million copies.

Now how many of those 17 million copies do you think where purchased by or for people under the age of 17? I would venture to say well over half if not three quarters. The game rides the edge. Rockstar knows this and held back. If it was truly a game for adults I think it would have been pushed even further. Full nudity in the clubs, really nasty splatters of people and full on hot coffee games. They went very far but if it was truly a game for adults only then why no nip, why the outrage by the media. So it is not really an adult game. Don't you consider a 17yo a child still, 16 defintly a child, 15, no doubt too young?

Do you understand what I'm saying? Of course it's not meant for kids legally but rockstar knows who their audience is. If they had really pushed it then it wouldn't have been rated M it would have been rated AO, Adults Only. (Titles rated Adults Only have content that should only be played by persons 18 years and older. Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity.) GTASA received AO from M after hot coffee was found. They probably would have lost a lot of sales with an AO rating on GTA IV. So that is why I say the game was marketed to kids, made for kids, held back by kids and is in the majority played by children. I’m really just bitching that games companies don’t have the balls to make an actual AO game.

In the end, yes, this is a good thing and might make developers feel comfortable enough to produce AO games knowing they will not land in the hands of children and stop holding back. Parents will have nothing to say since it’s clearly marked for adults only and it will be the states or governments responsibilty NOT THE PARENTS to stop the sale and I'm not saying that how it should be but what this law will do. Or maybe the threat of fines, fees and jail time will scare the crap out of retailers and they'll refuse to stock AO games and since it is not just enforcing ESRB it is banning all minors from buying all games that could be considered "violent", we may just see a very quick decline of "violent" games. Games rated Teen being called "violent" and banned, some mortal kombat games are rated teen. Game companies will respond to the lack of sales and it won't be by turning up the violence... or maybe they will... only time will tell.

P.S. How are my paragraphs?

P.P.S. I was looking in to the demographics simply for video games and found this. "While the market for teen and young adult men is still a strong market, it is the other demographics which are posting significant growth. In 2008, the average American gamer has been playing for 12 years, and is now, on average, 35 years of age." So I'm really confused why we don't see a lot more AO games targeted only for 18+ really I want to see targeted for 25-35 range.
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Old 08-14-10, 04:45 PM   #30
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Default Re: Help Defend Video Games In The Supreme Court!

If you had asked me 4 years ago what I would have thought of this, I would have avidly opposed this. However, now that I've gone through the college system and noticed how much our society is driven by the antics seen in video games and on the internet, I FULLY support this law.

It could be considered supression, but the fact of the matter is that video games have gotten too violent and language has gotten so vivid that it is in full-adult territory. It does add to the mood, but it also isn't necessary in games like BC2 and MW2. The ratings nowadays are too relaxed compared to how they were just 15 years ago.

Anyway, let them become legal adults, and then let them make the decisions for themselves. At 18, people aren't perfect, but most are far more level headed then a 15 or 16 year old.
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Old 08-14-10, 06:44 PM   #31
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Default Re: Help Defend Video Games In The Supreme Court!

I think video sums up the issue quite well.

Should put a language warning disclaimer here, so watch it with headphones on or out of the ears of children.

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Old 08-15-10, 06:39 PM   #32
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Default Re: Help Defend Video Games In The Supreme Court!

To anyone thinking this law will change anything, it won't. All the kid has to do is ask a friend, parent, brother, or torrent site to get the game.
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Old 08-16-10, 10:32 AM   #33
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Default Re: Help Defend Video Games In The Supreme Court!

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To anyone thinking this law will change anything, it won't. All the kid has to do is ask a friend, parent, brother, or torrent site to get the game.
I can see where you are coming from. when I reached 18, kids under age would sit at the local store and ask adults to buy them cigarettes. I did once and would never do it again. As for Torrents, piracy is a bigger issue. From experience. I know someone who is a government social worker who bought mw2 for her kid at 10 years of age. After I played the russian scene, I cringed in fear for what that kid may take from things like that. And you can't get every parent to change or do the right thing, so make it law to deter the parent just like you would for a R rated movie. The only thing bad that may come of it is gamer stereotyping where retail stores start looking at the person buying and see if they match the profile of a gamer meaning like a parent buying M games for their kid. Then we get lawsuits from that because their was no cause not to sell to the parent after they get profiled. Then there is the problem of the parent trading in that game for another M game if by console game purchase. And how are you supposed to enforce online retailer purchases unless law gets passed where retailers need photo id to buy online. And the only way they could do that is by accessing government databases which may or may not unconstitutional for you down south.
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Old 08-16-10, 01:49 PM   #34
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Default Re: Help Defend Video Games In The Supreme Court!

Well AO games are already basically unofficially banned in retailer's eyes so that is the main reason you never see them in stores. It's the only reason you always see game devs targeting an M rating instead of going all out. It's not because they are aiming for kids or because they don't want to make an AO game, it's because no store will carry AO games and that will be a huge hit on their profits especially if you consider it takes several million dollars of investment capital to make a game.

While it is true that a lot of those M rated games were bought for under 17 year olds, a good portion of those were bought by parents who didn't know what Rated M means or didn't care. I am sure there were some retailers out there that sold to under 17, but I honestly don't know how many could have when even before the last GTA shipped I was being carded by stores like Best Buy and I know I look well over 25.

This law does NOT in any way shift the parenting role from parent to government, if it did it would read "no child can buy or play M rated games", and would play out more like alcohol laws today where you get charged for child endangerment if you are found giving alcohol to a minor. What it does say is that you cannot legally sell a child a game who is younger than the rating of the game without the parent's consent. That does not take away parental responsibility it actually encourages it as it would force retailers to say to the buyer you're too young, bring in your parents if you want to buy it. With this law it would actually hold the retailer responsible for selling a M rated game to a minor and open them up to severe fines and/or other penalties.
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Old 08-16-10, 10:28 PM   #35
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Default Re: Help Defend Video Games In The Supreme Court!

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This is a good law, I dont know where some of you people live but here in Texas I was never, ever, ever able to buy a M rated game when I was under 18, maybe in your state the stores were not enforcing it, but they were down here.

I saw a girl get turned down from buying CS:Source at Walmart about a year ago and I was lmao because that used to happen to me all the time when I was a kid. If kids want the game they should go through the parents. I dont even consider 18 yr olds to be adults but whatever thats not the issue here.

The question is do you want 10 year olds to be able to buy games of this nature.
This post is so absurd I can't even put it into words.

When someone says there 'ought to be a law, there probably 'ought'nt.

CAN ANYONE in this thread, please tell me how this law will help anything? (I don't expect coherent responses)
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Old 08-16-10, 10:42 PM   #36
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Default Re: Help Defend Video Games In The Supreme Court!

I support it as well. It needs to be a national law. If the kids want it, it's up to the parents to go buy it and THEY should be held responsible.

some kids are mature enough to deal with that stuff and some aren't. It's should be left up to the parent to make the decision. Giving any kid off the street that choice shouldn't have ever been allowed.

The girl I work with bought her kids god of war 1/2 for PS3 recently and she pretty much walked into the room during one of the sex mini games and immediately returned it. She learned her lesson the hard way. We had a discussion about it with a couple other guys/gals that game at the office and we're all pretty much unanimously in support of any law/bill that makes it harder for kids to walk into a store and get these type games.

my parents always had to pre-screen the rated R movies before me and my brothers could watch them when we were kids. We got some, we didn't get others but they were being responsible by not just handing us basic instinct directors cut when I was 11, rather forcing me to sneak it into my room late one night to sample the forbidden fruit...
























































































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