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Old 10-10-03, 03:11 PM   #37
JBC
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Another thought in reference to Response Time possibly being the culprit. It would be more noticeable in High Contrast zones where black meets white for instance. Of course one can't be sure without seeing a screen capture. If during a screen capture you don't see the jaggies then that would indicate a monitor problem.


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Old 10-10-03, 04:52 PM   #38
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JBC: Thanks for the very thoughtful suggestions.

I am not sure that it is response time, since problem only occurs within the video frame and does not affect rest of the screen. If you have multiple video streams playing, then problem only occurs in the first one (probably since it uses hardware scaling, while other streams use software scaling).

You might want to check out the original thread to see the extensive collection of troubleshooting that has been done, including some very interesting workarounds which seem to point in the direction of some oddball hardware scalling issues.

The original thread also includes screenshots, so you can get a better picture of what the jaggies look like.
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Old 10-10-03, 06:40 PM   #39
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Nvidia Linux drivers are just so damn damn good, in some respects better than windows, my games rock in Linux

My card is worth it's weight in gold in Linux.
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Old 10-10-03, 11:08 PM   #40
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Puterguy,

15hz of freakin difference doesn't justify a 10 month long crusade against the leading graphics card maker who has decided to support linux.

Get a clue dude, NOBODY ELSE (besides a paltry ATI showing) is supporting linux right now.

What if Nvidia decided to only support eh hollywood studios for whom this driver was written, they could very easily take the driver which is closed source all the way through off the site and only administer it through thier supply partners with the clients who requested it.

That would justify an "F" for linux support.

If you've ever taken a economics course or even read up on supply and demand then you'de know if there were 20 million linux users out there, Nvidia would write NVdvd for linux and make it run @ 120hz smooth as silk.

Count your freakin blessings!

The very fact that you CAN run a graphics card under linux when Microsoft is dominating the computing world should make you happy.

Go run naked in a field with disney nymphs with harps, rejoice to balet dancing hippos with paper thin tu tu's.

Get real!

You should have spent 10 months marketing Linux to people who haven't a clue what it is. Then maybe the demographics would shift a little.

Bean counters look at numbers, then they tell execs to send reinforcements to critical market segments (read engineers on projects to bump up perfrmance or support.)

I mean, hell I used to preach M$ I used to be an MCSE certified network engineer during the 90's boom, sh*t happens markets change...

When XP came out I decided I didn't want "Bill Stalin" breathing down my neck...

So linux it was, then I realized NOBODY supports it in commercial land...

I'm happy that hollywood adopted linux!
Not happy about all the other sh*t they do... using the benefits of open source technology while suing ordinary people who trade files... Thats right you big beautiful b*stards use the tech and sue the rest.


So in short bring the hz down a notch, watch smooth video playback and quit yer bitchin.

I'm sorry if that wasn't quite entertaining enough for you.

I'm running Mandrake 8.2 RC2 I paid my financial dues to mandrake for this year even though all thier driver HCL pages say no Nvidia support exists for mandrake linux.

Do I go say "Hey I paid you to make mandrake better! Fix my problem!" ?

No, its not thier problem to fix, its Nvidia's or I'm doing something wrong.

So I take it to the README files and the Man pages.

I made a thread, I posted relevant data, I got no Nvidia response do I go on a tantrum?

No I'll troubleshoot some more publish my findings and try again if it still doesn't work.

The more prefessionally you behave the greater the possibility that you'll succeed and that people will use your data.

In your case you video card didn't blow up, the system didn't freeze, its a minor bug deal with it!

I'de hate to see what you'd do if some bad luck came your way...

I can't get X to start with the Nvidia driver!

Not even the newest one...

I weight my lack of ANY driver functionality to your "Waaaahhhhhh! My screen is jaggy over 60hz, but only when I play video in fullscreen mode, with the DVI port! FIX me!"

Um I'm sorry but that means zip to me, my display does NOT work, that means NO video NO 3D, NO fast redraws.

You have all these things and you're complaining? WTF?

a.) You have Nvidia driver support working on your box

b.) You have 3D support because if this makes your panties curl up then god help us all if your 3D support ever went away.

c.) You're making a huge to do about a trivial matter, maybe its worth your time to bitch about 15hz but (in which case I question how you choose to use your time, but hey thats yours to use not mine and good luck with it), I have higher priorities in my life than to bitch about 15hz, it doesn't affect my job requirements so I could care less.

Xine works great even without the Nvidia driver, Its DVD! even the weakest processor on the market will play it back smooth as silk unaccelerated!

You must be the kind of person who holds up a line of traffic to get a perfectly clear stretch of road before they turn onto another lane.

You must be the kind of person who registers thier parking space with the homeowners association and dutifully guards it day in day out lest another human being might park there one day out of the year, "hey you get yer ass outta my parking space! I'll have your ass towed!"

Maybe this anality is attributed to other needs which have gone unfulfilled in your life? Got a GF? if not go to a bar sometime there's plenty of women to chat up, if you do then take her out have some fun. You definetly need it!

If I was working @ Nvidia you can be guaranteed I would have about 10*e15 more important things to do including getting the driver to start X with the newest kernel on most distros then to answer this post.


I can't belive I'm hearing this.

Have a nice life in 15hz land!

Perfection Nazi!

Last edited by dreamerv3; 10-10-03 at 11:12 PM.
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Old 10-11-03, 05:14 AM   #41
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Default I think they deserve a B

Thanks for pointing me to the original thread. It contains much more detail as to your problem. Sorry I can't help.

But to be fair I'd say they deserve a B. I'd say an F should be reserved for companies that don't support Linux at all. I mean nVidia does currently have it's hands full what with staying competative (ATI) and with entering the chipset market. I believe that all in all they are a "force" to be reckoned with, and with our continued support, all will come in due time.

Though I'm sure you're incapable of seeing it quite that way right about now. It's always hard seeing the light when it's not the "Other Guy" in the dark.

I hope you figure it out. Crap, when you finish gaining the knowledge you'll be an expert LCD troubleshooter, just think...

No sarchasm intended , just trying to point out the brighter side.

Good Luck!

JBC

P.S. Just how much visual difference is there on a TFT LCD when changing from 60Hz to 75Hz refresh anyway?
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Old 10-11-03, 11:46 PM   #42
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dreamerv3:
Great reply man. Whole truth.
I recently upgraded to GForce2MX, working on Medion TFT (1024x768) with famous 75Hz refresh/rate. Never seen better picture...
And I must say again that Andy and nVidia guys doing great job !

kindly,
Alek
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Old 10-12-03, 02:33 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aleksandar_Ilic
dreamerv3:
Great reply man. Whole truth.
I recently upgraded to GForce2MX, working on Medion TFT (1024x768) with famous 75Hz refresh/rate. Never seen better picture...
And I must say again that Andy and nVidia guys doing great job !

kindly,
Alek
-------
amen..it seems as though the little brat finally had enough MUD'ing and went and cleaned up his 'act' ROFL...

nvidia gets a DOUBLE A + from me because

a) I run linux and get fantastic frames from fullscreeen mplayer and my 3d games are JOYOUS ( read: neverwinter nights was NEVER so good and ATI guys are having pains -or used to- anyway not sure what status of the game is atm for ATI users...

b) who needs b when a is so sweet.

;-)
thanks NVidia !!

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Old 10-12-03, 11:45 PM   #44
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Puterguy:

Regarding my previous reply in your thread, I'd like to apologize for the character remarks I made, beyond the stubborness of not willing to live with 60hz refresh I had no other frame of reference by which make my speculative remarks.

Don't get me wrong I think you did need to lighten up about 15hz of difference, but I was pissed at my total lack of display capability and your qualm with a minor change and also your response to some other members reminded me of an immature person not willing to let a small problem go.

I've fixed my display problem and frankly I have no clue what refresh I'm running (oh I could find out easily enough but it doesn't really matter since I can't sense the difference and if I can its so small that it doesn't justify my effort), all I know is that 3D works and thats what I really want.

Why could I want 3D so badly anyway?
3D games on linux are a joke compared to windows 3D games, by selection and quality, sadly.

I mean compare tuxracer to wipeout or midnight club. there is no comparision.

Linux games are thought provoking and non violent. I'de love to see tux lose some weight gain some muscle and done some cool street threads an earing and a girlfriend.(Xnay on donning the girlfriend, for all you literal types, you know who you are :P )

Then linux would project a badass image.

Hmm maybe I should take up drawing.....

I want 3D acceleration cuase I'm learning to program in GL but I digress...

If you had a serious issue like the display driver failing to start then I'd be more sympathietic.

Point is we shouldn't be fighting amongst ourselves because linux lives and dies by the individual members of its many communities including this one. I'de rather solve problems than create ones.

Anyhow thats about it.

Last edited by dreamerv3; 10-12-03 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 10-13-03, 01:43 PM   #45
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My God, some of you guys need to really lighten up... the tirades you go on in defense of nVidia or to attack my postings could keep a psychiatrist busy for months

As I have said explicitly *many* times, I do not fault nVidia for not prioritizing this bug, I only fault them for two things:
1. Not responding to or acknowledging the bug so that those who are affected have some idea where we stand and what we can do about it
2. Publicly posting misleading comments about how they "responded to [me] several times" despite the fact that no matter how many ways I have tried to get through to nVidia, they have never responded to address the problem except on this thread where Andy talks about trying to contact me.

Finally, I want to clarify that I do give nVidia *high* marks for supporting Linux (even though the drivers are closed source). My low marks are for Linux *customer* support where carefully crafted bug reports and troubleshooting are seemingly ignored. In retrospect, I should have added the word "customer" to the thread title.

Of course, this type of situation illustrates precisely the problem with closed source drivers -- one is left at the total whim of the driver provider to fix bugs whether big or small.
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Old 10-17-03, 05:56 AM   #46
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A quote I picked up from: http://www.dpt-ltd.co.uk/services/DisplayTechnology.pdf

"A CRT has three electron guns whose streams must converge faultlessly in order to create a sharp image. There are no convergence problems with an LCD panel, because each cell is switched on and off individually. This is one reason why text looks so crisp on an LCD monitor. There’s no need to worry about refresh rates and flicker with an LCD panel - the LCD cells are either on or off, so an image displayed at a refresh rate as low as between 40-60Hz should not produce any more flicker than one at a 75Hz refresh rate."

And another at: http://www.infonetwork.com.au/lcd.htm

"Refresh Rate

Since LCD monitors do not employ phosphors like a CRT, refresh rate is not a concern. Basically, the transistors in the LCD remain open or closed as needed until the image changes. This can be a point of confusion for some consumers since most graphics cards still "ask for" a refresh rate setting. This is due to the analog nature of existing graphic cards (see "Digital Video Interface" section) and their support for CRT displays. While refresh rates do not apply to LCD monitors, most LCDs are set up to accept any settings from 60Hz and above. It is best to set youur video card to 60Hz.

Response time

Response time is a specification important for LCD monitors. Don't confuse it with Refresh Rate. Response time refers to how quickly a liquid crystal can twist, then untwist to either pass or block the light of each pixel. Response time is instrumental in determining whether or not LCDs can clearly show full-motion video without smearing or ghosting. Since there can be a relationship between viewing angle and response time, both should be considered together. This specification is becoming increasingly important as the use of full-motion video grows.

Until recently streaming of full-motion video without error has been a drawback for LCDs, while CRTs have enjoyed virtually no problem. For this reason, many gamers and users of video playback and editing applications continue to prefer CRT monitors. However, with the combination of the raw material speed and the innovative driving schemes, it is now possible for active-matrix LCD panels to achieve a switching speed that virtually eliminating ghosting and image trailing from video application. Many of the newer LCDs have response times of about 16msec which enables video to be replayed as well on a LCD screen as any CRT screen. You should select a LCD with the lowest response time possible."


I Hope this helps!


Have you ever had someone nag you until you ended up turning a deaf ear to them?

Have you ever troubleshot an electronic device suspecting a particular circuit when in fact it was another?

Have you ever thought that a particular hardware driver was the problem when in fact it was a Microshaft Winblows problem? How about two drivers in conflict?

How does one really determine which bit of code is in error, and if they can, shouldn't they be able to then correct it?

Does a signature that includes someones system specs say more about their abilities, the small size of their penis(so says Sigmund), or how much money they're willing to spend on it?


Just some thoughts


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Old 10-17-03, 10:09 AM   #47
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Killer specs, JBC. Freud would say you have a microscopic penis
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Old 10-17-03, 10:17 AM   #48
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JBC -- thanks for your helpful reply.
You make a convincing case for the fact that the bug that occurs at 75Hz is irrelevant since 60Hz refresh is just as good when it comes to an LCD.

At the same time, your simple reply only heightens my complaint against nVidia lack of responsiveness. If that is truly the answer, you would think that the tech at nVidia would be aware of it and reply to either the original thread or to the original bug report with that resolution. Why I needed to wait 10 months to get such a basic answer is absurd.

Regarding your question:
"Have you ever had someone nag you until you ended up turning a deaf ear to them?"

You should be aware of the facts here. My bug reports to nVidia were spaced 3-4 months apart. Similarly, my emails to Andy and my posts to the original thread to awaken interest were posted 1-2 months apart. Since my inquiries were only to request some acknowledgement of where things stand on responding to this problem, I would call my willingness to wait months between posts more a virtue of patience than a fault of nagging.
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