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Old 10-25-10, 08:43 AM   #1
mailman2
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Default Battlefield 3 Won't Be "Consolized"...

Are they finally "getting it"? I'll believe it when I see it... but it looks like someone else out there has realized these crappy ports are hurting PC gamers.

Good PC gameplay is good console gameplay too, says DICE's Alan Kurz.

EA DICE developer Alan Kurz has reassured PC gamers that the next installment of the Battlefield series won't be "dumbed down" or "consolized," and that he planned to give the PC version of Battlefield 3 the care and attention it deserved.

Posting on the EA forums, Kurz said that he had learned an important lesson while working on the PC version of Battlefield: Bad Company 2, which was to treat the PC and console versions of a game the same when it came to gameplay. DICE originally designed the weapon handling in BF:BC2 with a PS3 controller, and each weapon had a certain degree of inaccuracy that was unnoticeable on a pad, but very obvious when playing with a mouse. Using feedback from the PC tests, Kurz redesigned the weapon handling to eliminate that inaccuracy and found that not only did it improve the game for the PC players, it made the console versions better as well.

That's not to say that there's no difference at all between playing games on a PC versus a console. Kurz said that the limited number of buttons on a controller meant that console interfaces had to be more elegant, and that while console gamers were not averse to deep systems, they had to be accessible. PC gamers, he thought, were more forgiving of complexity, but had much higher expectations and would react very badly to anything they felt had been ported over from a console.

Kurz's post met with a mixed response from forum users, with some taking it at face value, but the majority reacting badly to it, especially Kurz's claims that the gap between consoles and PC was narrowing. Some even went as far as to say that the very future of DICE was in danger if the PC version of BF3 wasn't exactly up to the high standards they demanded, presumably meaning that the financial impact of PC gamers shunning it would be disastrous. It's unlikely that these comments have any real bite to them though, and really only represent the views of a small, but loud, minority.


http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...aims-Developer
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Oh, if the whole world had only one neck for me to squeeze in my hands...
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Old 10-25-10, 09:07 AM   #2
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Default Re: Battlefield 3 Won't Be "Consolized"...

LOL how much time do you spend worrying about "consolization"? haha

I don't mind if they want to make the games on separate platforms similar. But currently, consoles are not capable of reproducing the performance of PC's. I don't know why they would base weapon handling on the PC controls on a controller, though. Mouse and keyboard versus controllers is like night and day. Controllers have mushy controls and the accuracy/precision is low. But this often doesn't matter since you are playing versus players using the same controllers. Mouse and keyboard is very responsive with high accuracy/precision, based on who is running it hehe.

That's seriously the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

Looks like they learned their lesson, though. So now we may not need 100 updates to fix what should have been done at launch lol. I am excited for the BF3 beta.
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Old 10-25-10, 09:08 AM   #3
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Default Re: Battlefield 3 Won't Be "Consolized"...

Very juicy news, mailman.
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Old 10-25-10, 09:12 AM   #4
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Default Re: Battlefield 3 Won't Be "Consolized"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ViN86 View Post
I am excited for the BF3 beta.
I'm going to say I'm curiously optimistic.
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Oh, if the whole world had only one neck for me to squeeze in my hands...
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Old 10-25-10, 09:29 AM   #5
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Default Re: Battlefield 3 Won't Be "Consolized"...

There are still other things they should look into as well. No strafe keys is a big one as well. I would think the challenge would be making a great BF3 game on console more so than PC because of the limitations.
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Old 10-25-10, 09:32 AM   #6
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Well, I'll believe it when I see it. But I look forward to it. BF2:BC was awesome.
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Old 10-25-10, 09:53 AM   #7
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Default Re: Battlefield 3 Won't Be "Consolized"...

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Originally Posted by Bearclaw View Post
Well, I'll believe it when I see it.
This.

Will there be patches out tweaking the controls for BC2?

BC2 is actually pretty solid IMO. I've got it on both 360 and PC. Turning off all the aiming assists and "training wheels" on the 360 gives a good challenge and during combat, I don't notice much of a gap in graphics quality. when pixel peeping though, it's a different story.
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Old 10-25-10, 10:59 AM   #8
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Default Re: Battlefield 3 Won't Be "Consolized"...

Hmmm, regardless we effectivley are gonna get the same game that console owners get but with more attention to the PC version to suit PC players as far as controls go. I still think that BF3 should have been a PC only game but obviously that wouldn't be cost effective for EA/Dice...

I also think that the ignorance of devs these days is very high, dont they test the PC versions of games themselves ? It is obvious upon the first 5 minutes of playing a game wether it is consolised or not...why do they need feedback from PC players to rectify problems for future games ?

Im not expecting anything ground breaking from BF3 not as ground breaking as what BF2 was anyway...The memory limitations of a console will always be a problem for cross platform games..size of maps, physics, input lag, hit box registration, low res textures, low res shadows etc

Battlefield has always been a PC game and the bad company series was always the console equivelent, up untill recently. I am still looking forward to this game and no doubt will be buying it on release, i just wish the devs would stop sugar coating what is effectivly inevitable...a dumbed down version that does not make full use of a high end PC.
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Old 10-25-10, 11:45 AM   #9
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Default Re: Battlefield 3 Won't Be "Consolized"...

The argument doesnt just stem between PC and console...Take a look at consoles..Sony and Microsoft get EXACTLY the same game from cross platform games even though one system IS more pwerfull than the other, sometimes it is hard to distinguish the same game between the two.

Fact is Devs are becoming lazy and only care about one thing...money. What happened to taking pride in there work and being proud that they can produce a game that makes full use of the platform it is developed for, the onlt advantage that consoles have in this argument over PC's is that they get exclusives which is becoming more and more rare on the PC.
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Old 10-25-10, 11:49 AM   #10
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Default Re: Battlefield 3 Won't Be "Consolized"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by slaWter View Post
When a console launches, it's already outdated compared to PC hardware.
While this is true, few (if any) developers are actually designing games to take advantage of PC's superior hardware. Games like God of War, Reach, Uncharted 2, killzone 2, etc show that there are EXCEPTIONAL looking console games primarily because the developers put a lot of time into making them look that good.

It seems like the whole fact that PC's have vastly more graphical prowess is a total non issue to developers. The good news though is that there are still some developers out there (carmack) who are really pushing the limits of the hardware on the consoles.
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Old 10-25-10, 11:56 AM   #11
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Default Re: Battlefield 3 Won't Be "Consolized"...

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Originally Posted by Logical View Post
Fact is Devs are becoming lazy and only care about one thing...money. What happened to taking pride in there work and being proud that they can produce a game that makes full use of the platform it is developed for, the onlt advantage that consoles have in this argument over PC's is that they get exclusives which is becoming more and more rare on the PC.
There is zero financial incentive to make a game look better or worse on one console. It would cost more money to put in the extra work for that that they would never see so it doesn't make any sense financially.

They would have had to have some sort of scalable quality built into the engine from the beginning so that it could scale in more or less texture quality or what not based on the hardware running it. Like how the source engine works.
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Old 10-25-10, 12:26 PM   #12
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Default Re: Battlefield 3 Won't Be "Consolized"...

I think the internet is kind of reading into this post too much. I follow the DICE team guys on twitter and the dev that posted this, Demize99, is one of the gameplay designers who does stuff like weapon balancing on BFBC2. He is not a programmer or engine builder or anything of the sort. His post claims that HE will put in extra effort for the PC, yet the internet has twisted this into meaning that all of DICE will do the same and make the PC version something special. I hope this will be the case and maybe his words will motivate this behavior but if you read what he says word for word he isn't speaking for all of DICE. Here was his post:

http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/b...l#post18686418

Quote:
Early on BFBC2 our PC playtest feedback showed that weapon feeling was lacking. It just wasn't as much fun to shoot the guns on PC as on console. With controls being the big gameplay difference (mouse vs pad) it quickly became clear that simply put the original weapon tweaks, which were done on the PS3, weren't working on PC. The guns all had a bit of base inaccuracy, that with a gamepad wasn't really noteworthy, but on PC it really prevented players from taking advantage of the mouse input. On 2142 one of the key things about the guns is that they were all deadly accurate, they lost damage over range sure, but if you could put the crosshairs on the target you could hit it. Sure, some people feel like an AR should be more accurate than an SMG or carbine. I feel like the issue is "ARs should be better at range" and thus, they do better damage over range than the SMGs.

In response to the feedback on PC, I completely retweaked the accuracy. The next playtest it was immediately obvious that it was a change for the better, and surprisingly it also made gamepads feel much better as well.

Fundamentally I think it is an error to have different core gameplay on console vs PCs. PC gives a player more input control and if a gun feels good on PC it feels good on console. I won't "dumb it down" by lowering the recoil or changing the damage model or other such silliness.

PC and Console Battlefield players want similar gameplay: Epic sprawling Battlefields, and also tight infantry fights. Balanced weapons and land/sea/air vehicles with a rock-paper-scissors emphasis. Squad and teamplay, where no one player can be a do-it-all super soldier, and communications systems to support teamplay. And a deep and rewarding system of progression with deep and varied gameplay that keeps you wanting to go 1 more round. Everyone also wants it to be easy to play with their friends.

Consoles generally are less tolerant of overly complex interfaces. They have less buttons, you need more elegant interfaces. Deep systems work well though if they have a straight forward interface. The fun is not in figuring out how to use the system, it's in figuring out how to best use the system.

PC players have their own set of requirements. They tend to play only on PC, and they know their PCs have capabilities beyond that of a console. The gap is narrowing, but PCs still have a clear advantage in memory. PC players also demand a PC interface, a server browser, and anything that feels like it might have been "ported" from a console is going to get flamed hard. They are more forgiving of complex systems and will tear any design down into its parts to really figure out how it works. It's a damn sight harder to please a PC player, they have higher expectations.

It's too early to talk BF3 specifics. But it's never too early for me to acknowledge that PC players have a fear that BF3 will be "consolized." PC gaming is alive and well, BFBC2 has proven that and no one at DICE or EA can argue with the numbers. Battlefield 3 needs an extra bit of special attention on the PC. I intend to give it that attention, tradition and our community demand it.
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