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Old 09-11-03, 06:21 PM   #1
Hellbinder
 
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Default Ok what is up with the new Articles on the main page?

I read them.. But i still cant believe them...

First of all the ID comment..
Quote:
The GeForce FX is currently the fastest card we've benchmarked the Doom technology on and that's largely due to NVIDIA's close cooperation with us during the development of the algorithms that were used in Doom. They knew that the shadow rendering techniques we're using were going to be very important in a wide variety of games and they made some particular optimizations in their hardware strategy to take advantage of this and that served them well.
Give me a break. Want to see which one is really Faster? Run the game with the ARB2 DEFAULT HIGH QUALITY PATH and see what happens. The Nv3x cards are currently the fastest for a reason. Carmack spcifically coded an entire REndering path just for Nvidia Lowing the Quality at every possible oportunity to make it the fastest. Further its a DX7/DX8 Game and mainly uses jsut ONE Shader. Which it repeats over and over.

Secondly.. From Nvidia themselves...
Quote:
Over the last 24 hours, there has been quite a bit of controversy over comments made by Gabe Newell of Valve at ATIs Shader Day.

During the entire development of Half Life 2, NVIDIA has had close technical contact with Valve regarding the game. However, Valve has not made us aware of the issues Gabe discussed.

We're confused as to why Valve chose to use Release. 45 (Rel. 45) - because up to two weeks prior to the Shader Day we had been working closely with Valve to ensure that Release 50 (Rel. 50) provides the best experience possible on NVIDIA hardware.

Regarding the Half Life2 performance numbers that were published on the web, we believe these performance numbers are invalid because they do not use our Rel. 50 drivers. Engineering efforts on our Rel. 45 drivers stopped months ago in anticipation of Rel. 50. NVIDIA's optimizations for Half Life 2 and other new games are included in our Rel.50 drivers - which reviewers currently have a beta version of today. Rel. 50 is the best driver we've ever built - it includes significant optimizations for the highly-programmable GeForce FX architecture and includes feature and performance benefits for over 100 million NVIDIA GPU customers.

Pending detailed information from Valve, we are only aware one bug with Rel. 50 and the version of Half Life 2 that we currently have - this is the fog issue that Gabe refered to in his presentation. It is not a cheat or an over optimization. Our current drop of Half Life 2 is more than 2 weeks old. NVIDIA's Rel. 50 driver will be public before the game is available. Since we know that obtaining the best pixel shader performance from the GeForce FX GPUs currently requires some specialized work, our developer technology team works very closely with game developers.

Part of this is understanding that in many cases promoting PS 1.4 (DirectX 8) to PS 2.0 (DirectX 9) provides no image quality benefit. Sometimes this involves converting 32-bit floating point precision shader operations into 16-bit floating point precision shaders in order to obtain the performance benefit of this mode with no image quality degradation. Our goal is to provide our consumers the best experience possible, and that means games must both look and run great.

The optimal code path for ATI and NVIDIA GPUs is different - so trying to test them with the same code path will always disadvantage one or the other. The default settings for each game have been chosen by both the developers and NVIDIA in order to produce the best results for our consumers.

In addition to the developer efforts, our driver team has developed a next-generation automatic shader optimizer that vastly improves GeForce FX pixel shader performance across the board. The fruits of these efforts will be seen in our Rel.50 driver release. Many other improvements have also been included in Rel.50, and these were all created either in response to, or in anticipation of the first wave of shipping DirectX 9 titles, such as Half Life 2.

We are committed to working with Gabe to fully understand his concerns and with Valve to ensure that 100+ million NVIDIA consumers get the best possible experience with Half Life 2 on NVIDIA hardware.
That is a complete Load of PR Dishonest Jibberish. Look at that Crap at the end talking about the 100+ million Nvidia users. most of which will run the game in Dx7 mode anyway...

I can clearly see the path Nvidia is going to go down now. These guys have completely lost it. I dont have even a shred of Respect left for them at all.
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Old 09-11-03, 06:27 PM   #2
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*shrugs* its news, we reported it
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Old 09-11-03, 06:33 PM   #3
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I hear ya HB. Me to and I'm a nv fan. "well was a nv fan"

Now maybe they see that not sticking with the microsoft DX9 standard
was the wrong thing to do.
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Old 09-11-03, 06:37 PM   #4
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Yeah, well if they want to claim the GFFX is faster than the Radeon then why won't they give ATI a copy of the benchmark? At least nVidia has access to the HL2 benchmark and is not being controlled by ATI. I'm supposed to take the word of someone that says "If you want the benchmark, talk to nVidia"?
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Old 09-11-03, 06:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisW
Yeah, well if they want to claim the GFFX is faster than the Radeon then why won't they give ATI a copy of the benchmark? At least nVidia has access to the HL2 benchmark and is not being controlled by ATI. I'm supposed to take the word of someone that says "If you want the benchmark, talk to nVidia"?
I tend to agree. And I should add, since Nvidia is currently engaging in the heavy suggestion making that HL2's performance is due to the Valve-ATI marketing deal, that Nvidia has paid $5 million for their deal with id/Activision for Doom 3. I wonder if Carmack has spent 5x longer on a special ATI code path than he has for ARB paths like Valve has for Nvidia for their game?
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Old 09-11-03, 06:46 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by John Reynolds
I tend to agree. And I should add, since Nvidia is currently engaging in the heavy suggestion making that HL2's performance is due to the Valve-ATI marketing deal, that Nvidia has paid $5 million for their deal with id/Activision for Doom 3. I wonder if Carmack has spent 5x longer on a special ATI code path than he has for ARB paths like Valve has for Nvidia for their game?
Interesting... Didn't know that about nVidia and ID. $5 million eh? To bad nVidia didn't use that chunk to invest in creating a DX9 card correctly.

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Old 09-11-03, 06:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Solomon
Interesting... Didn't know that about nVidia and ID. $5 million eh? To bad nVidia didn't use that chunk to invest in creating a DX9 card correctly.

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Old 09-11-03, 06:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by John Reynolds
I tend to agree. And I should add, since Nvidia is currently engaging in the heavy suggestion making that HL2's performance is due to the Valve-ATI marketing deal, that Nvidia has paid $5 million for their deal with id/Activision for Doom 3. I wonder if Carmack has spent 5x longer on a special ATI code path than he has for ARB paths like Valve has for Nvidia for their game?
IF YOU THINK YOU KNOW SO MUCH WHY DON'T YOU JUST GO START YOUR OWN WEBSITE AND MAKE YOUR OWN FORUMS SMARTBOY?!?!!?!?



































(Sorry, I just couldn't pass it up! )
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Old 09-11-03, 06:58 PM   #9
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Hey guys.. i am sorry if i came accross the wrong way. I was not addressing the fact that you guys posted the information. That of course is your Job.

You Nvnews dudes are great. I would never try to make some kind of negative comment about you or the Job your doing. My comment was about the informaion itself. I simply Phrased it poorly.
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Old 09-11-03, 06:59 PM   #10
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I know HB, was just covering our ass in the event someone else tried to pounce on us
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Old 09-11-03, 07:14 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisW
I'm supposed to take the word of someone that says "If you want the benchmark, talk to nVidia"?
I want the Half-Life 2 benchmark, why do i not have it?

Nvidia wanted to use their det 50's on the benchmarks, but somehow they wernt used, wasent that an issue with ATi saying

"ATi didnt have a chacne to 'optimize' their drivers"
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Old 09-11-03, 07:16 PM   #12
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You Nvnews dudes are great. I would never try to make some kind of negative comment about you or the Job your doing. My comment was about the informaion itself. I simply Phrased it poorly.
Yay. A vote of approval from Hellbinder.. what is the world coming to?

And for this, maybe we're skipping the video card war and going straight into the PR war. Note that NV said that Det50 does exist, something that I don't think they've ever done before (confirm the existence of an unannounced product or update before its launch). Maybe ATI and NV are playing hardball with regards to PR now.
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