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Old 02-07-11, 10:57 AM   #25
Sean_W
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Default Re: Treyarch dev says “negative” gamers the biggest problem facing the games industry

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what wrong with Black Ops? its just as good as Modern Warfare 1 now that its fixed ...
The point is, it shouldn't have been released that way, so that's why PC gamers are "negative" because the game was shipped with silly bugs which kill the experience.
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Old 02-07-11, 11:13 AM   #26
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Default Re: Treyarch dev says “negative” gamers the biggest problem facing the games industry

As I see it, the problem is we seem to have 2 sets of gamers these days.

You have people that have been around the block since the 90's (some the 80's) and early 00's and have seen innovation go down the toilet. Part of the problem is Activision and EA themselves, each year we get a Call Duty and Madden <insert year here>. People caught on to the Guitar Hero/Rock Band nonsense already, notice how that died down?

These gamers, the old school ones, are the vocal ones and are primarily the PC gamers that dabble in the console area. They (rightfully so) complain about console ports, subpar or held back versions or features, pricing, DRM, bugs, removed features, etc. The developers are just as much to blame, they complain about this group of gamers, <cough> wahh piracy <cough>.

The "new" generation of gamers, which is basically the people who never really played many PC games that now play Madden, Call of Duty, Halo, Killzone are the ones that companies are catering to. These gamers are the ones that will buy Call of Duty and Madden every year. So what does EA and Activision do? They keep churning out these games because it's a sure thing.

Even WoW has been somewhat ruined since 2004. An MMO is not a niche game anymore, it's mainstream and that game's changes (and players) over the years, especially in the last year or so, has really gone down the sh*tter.

I grew up on PC games. Consoles were always there but always a step behind. Now consoles are better than what most people have, PC wise and can crank out nice games. You'd be surprised how many people have Pentium 4's with 1GB of ram and XP still. Consoles are showing their age lately, but the games haven't caught up, because they can't.

Companies are around to make money and when you have a game that sells 5 million in a weekend because more people have Xbox's then a quality PC to play Call of Duty on, that's what they market to.
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Old 02-07-11, 11:28 AM   #27
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Default Re: Treyarch dev says “negative” gamers the biggest problem facing the games industry

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The point is, it shouldn't have been released that way, so that's why PC gamers are "negative" because the game was shipped with silly bugs which kill the experience.
ya i know, i was just trying to get a reaction
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Old 02-07-11, 06:09 PM   #28
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Default Re: Treyarch dev says “negative” gamers the biggest problem facing the games industry

they make **** games so screw them!
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Old 02-07-11, 07:32 PM   #29
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Default Re: Treyarch dev says “negative” gamers the biggest problem facing the games industry

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Originally Posted by Yaboze View Post
As I see it, the problem is we seem to have 2 sets of gamers these days.

You have people that have been around the block since the 90's (some the 80's) and early 00's and have seen innovation go down the toilet. Part of the problem is Activision and EA themselves, each year we get a Call Duty and Madden <insert year here>. People caught on to the Guitar Hero/Rock Band nonsense already, notice how that died down?

These gamers, the old school ones, are the vocal ones and are primarily the PC gamers that dabble in the console area. They (rightfully so) complain about console ports, subpar or held back versions or features, pricing, DRM, bugs, removed features, etc. The developers are just as much to blame, they complain about this group of gamers, <cough> wahh piracy <cough>.

The "new" generation of gamers, which is basically the people who never really played many PC games that now play Madden, Call of Duty, Halo, Killzone are the ones that companies are catering to. These gamers are the ones that will buy Call of Duty and Madden every year. So what does EA and Activision do? They keep churning out these games because it's a sure thing.

Even WoW has been somewhat ruined since 2004. An MMO is not a niche game anymore, it's mainstream and that game's changes (and players) over the years, especially in the last year or so, has really gone down the sh*tter.

I grew up on PC games. Consoles were always there but always a step behind. Now consoles are better than what most people have, PC wise and can crank out nice games. You'd be surprised how many people have Pentium 4's with 1GB of ram and XP still. Consoles are showing their age lately, but the games haven't caught up, because they can't.

Companies are around to make money and when you have a game that sells 5 million in a weekend because more people have Xbox's then a quality PC to play Call of Duty on, that's what they market to.
Bingo.

The older gamers look like whiners because we remember how it used to be. Meanwhile the new kiddies today just play whatever **** is fed to them. I remember old school PC gaming, and I remember old school console gaming. Console gaming has gotten much better over the years and PC gaming has almost gone backwards imo.
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Old 02-07-11, 08:39 PM   #30
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Default Re: Treyarch dev says “negative” gamers the biggest problem facing the games industry

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Bingo.

The older gamers look like whiners because we remember how it used to be. Meanwhile the new kiddies today just play whatever **** is fed to them. I remember old school PC gaming, and I remember old school console gaming. Console gaming has gotten much better over the years and PC gaming has almost gone backwards imo.
I may not be a super vet for PC gaming: (started around 2000 in real PC gaming), but I have to agree with this statement. PC gaming has gone downhill. Old games didn't have the issues that newer games have today. Then again, the games today, even the simple $5 ones, are 100 times more complex than those. A triple A title can take 3-years or more to develop, and several millions of dollars. That's a crazy amount of money for a game that you can buy for $50 on Steam. I can see why this guy from Treyarch would be upset, but for him to blame the customers, the fan-base, the people that pay for this guy to sit in his plush little office and bark orders all day, is the lowest form of degradation that a company can bestow on its customers.
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Old 02-07-11, 09:13 PM   #31
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Default Re: Treyarch dev says “negative” gamers the biggest problem facing the games industry

CoD took less than a year to develop so it's not development time. You don't pay for development time, if the developers don't get it out on time, they go over budget at their cost.
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Old 02-07-11, 09:59 PM   #32
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Default Re: Treyarch dev says “negative” gamers the biggest problem facing the games industry

Lots of good points in here fellas and I think that Yaboze pretty much gets the gold star. I started computer gaming back on the Apple IIe and never stopped.

It's pretty sad to see what things have come to. As a musician, I see the game industry has become so similar to the music industry. It's turned into the same old cookie cutter diva/generic bro rock washed up crap. I can randomly select a dozen songs by all different "modern rock" artists and have virtually the same thing on every song. The changes, song structures, vocal patterns, etc are all painfully predictable... It makes my job of learning new cover songs for our shows hilariously easy. I can often have a song memorized before it's even half way through. I wish I could say it's because of my skill level but sadly this is not the case.

The average highschool kid though buys this and the record producers KNOW this so why change it?! Why risk branching out on something different that may not appeal to the brainless masses and meet a bottom line with sales?


The game industry parallels this with frightening similarity.

Another parallel is that it's easier than ever these days to record, produce and market your own music and there are a TON of bands doing this. The same thing is happening in the game industry! Steam is LITTERED with KILLER games from small development teams!

And like mentioned, look at what happened with Minecraft. Super low budget, virtually no advertising. Just word of mouth and a low price tag on a truly unique game.

I think that at some point in the future music listeners are going to reach a point where they cannot take the type of music that shows like american idol are creating (even simon got sick of it) and they're going to say enough is enough and demand better music. I don't know when it'll happen but I think that the steady rise in popularity of music from independent labels is a clear indication that people are ready for something different and it seems like the game industry is becoming the same way.

Gamers are getting pissed off because we're being force fed the same old crap game after game. Sooner or later I hope that more and more gamers stand up and demand better games. The developers can do no wrong though so who knows when (or IF) they will actually respond and start taking their time to develop a higher quality product. My fear is that companies like EA and Activision won't allow it.

I imagine that if the developers of Battlefield, Call of Duty, Need for speed, etc actually took just one extra year to put some effort into truly making a revolutionary next step, we'd end up with so much better of a product that not only THEY could be proud of but GAMERS would be proud to own as well. Look at how long Bethesda has taken to get the next Elder Scrolls game into "it's almost finished" press. But reading about it makes me incredibly excited because it promises things I've never seen in a game before! I can't remember the last time a call of duty or halo or whatever has made me feel the same way.

Why haven't I bought gran tourismo 5, splinter cell conviction, GTA IV or Medal of Honor? Why'd I uninstall NFS HP2, FEAR 2 and Alpha Protocol? (among others)

Because I've already played them before when they were called something different and were better games.
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Old 02-07-11, 10:34 PM   #33
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Default Re: Treyarch dev says “negative” gamers the biggest problem facing the games industry

Hey Pony, try listening to some Jewel...especially the stuff that's recorded live.
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Old 02-08-11, 12:33 AM   #34
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Default Re: Treyarch dev says “negative” gamers the biggest problem facing the games industry

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Hey Pony, try listening to some Jewel...especially the stuff that's recorded live.
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Old 02-08-11, 01:49 PM   #35
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Default Re: Treyarch dev says “negative” gamers the biggest problem facing the games industry

Minecraft is cool and unique, but watch, it will take off and Kotick will buy it and revamp the graphics and everyone will play it. It will become mainstream and be filled with idiots.

I started on the Apple IIe as well. Consoles were way behind PC's in the 1980's. Even when the NES came out, it was behind the times but better than any other console. Don't get me wrong, the NES and SNES had some amazing games, but they were still behind PC's. It wasn't until the Playstation 1 and Dreamcast where the gap started to close.
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Old 02-08-11, 04:01 PM   #36
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Default Re: Treyarch dev says “negative” gamers the biggest problem facing the games industry

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Consoles were way behind PC's in the 1980's. Even when the NES came out, it was behind the times but better than any other console. Don't get me wrong, the NES and SNES had some amazing games, but they were still behind PC's. It wasn't until the Playstation 1 and Dreamcast where the gap started to close.
Thats a nice story grandpa...

8086 8088 CGA EGA era PC's vs Amiga or even Master System I'd take the latter for gaming any day.

Arcade machines were the real bleeding edge in the 80's not home/office machines though eh
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