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Old 08-22-03, 09:13 AM   #226
Flavius
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Could someone e-mail the Public Relations guru at Nvidia, Derek Perez, and tell him his company is looking at a public relations DISASTER on this flicker issue? His e-mail is on the Nvidia website.
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Old 08-22-03, 09:45 AM   #227
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flavius
Could someone e-mail the Public Relations guru at Nvidia, Derek Perez, and tell him his company is looking at a public relations DISASTER on this flicker issue? His e-mail is on the Nvidia website.
I agree 100% on it being a disaster for nvidia. Not just the people with this problem will most likely not be buying another nvidia product in the future (most may not again) but think about all the people they will tell not to buy a future nvidia product. I know myself since the tnt days over the years had plenty of people buy nvidia cards because of there once rock solid cards/drivers. I can also say that so far it doesn't look like I will ever recommend another one again and I'm sure others out there will most likely do the same. Today I tried my eVGA FX 5900U board on 2 more systems belonging people people I just met in a local CompUSA store that were going to buy a 5900 board. I decided not to point out the flickering and they picked it out without me showing them. It took one of the two about 10 minutes to see it but the other one seen it as soon as a map loaded in Medal Of Honor (also tried Wolf. ET, Enclave, Splinter Cell and Morrowind, Wolverine's Revenge, Shadow Of Destiny, Hitman 2, Dragon's Lair 3D, Elite Force 1 & 2, Enter The Matrix, CnC generals... The list kept going on as they had more games then I can remember installed).

The more I test this board in more system is the more I believe that I will not use another nvidia product ever again unless something is said and done shortly after. The only reason I kept testing is in hope that I can prove myself wrong but as of yet I keep getting disappointed (I don't give up easy). Nvidia needs to say something soon As this is already hurting themselves... Today they lost two potential buyers of the 5900U (not directly but it still will hurt them in the long run). It was not my intention but I couldn't see people buying the card without a fair warning and I originally went there to buy a new case (and I wanted to see if they had the flicker on there systems as well )
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Old 08-22-03, 11:18 PM   #228
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Arrow

Attached is a zip file with a *tiny* DX8 program (NVBlinky.exe) that shows
the flickering problem (at least on my setup and one other persons setup).
It should be useful for quickly verifying if you have the problem or if anything that you do fixes the problem.

It is most effective when run on an analog monitor.

A VC++ 6 project with the source is included for the curious and the suspicious among you. Compilation requires the DX8 SDK. All the program
does is draw a set of points whose geometry is updated 10 times a second.

let me know how it works for you.

Enjoy.
Attached Files
File Type: zip nvblinky.zip (58.6 KB, 613 views)
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Old 08-22-03, 11:39 PM   #229
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OMG
my card flickers badly
i thought that i dont have that problem but actually i do
now we need a fix and FAST
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Old 08-23-03, 01:03 AM   #230
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Hi everyone! Well, I held out for as along as I could then got the MSI 5900 ULTRA. I noticed the flicker problem and tried different refresh rates and resolutions with no fix. After some googleing I came across this forum and it looks like im not alone. I read a lot of reviews on this card and heard nothing about a flicker issue or that it was even happening. I spent $570 USD inc TAX and I figured for that price it should be flawless. Boy was I wrong. I have tried all kinds of things to make the @#$%ing flicker go away and I can't find a fix. I even tried taking out all other pci cards and upgrading my power supply from 350 watt to 431 watt.

I am also experiencing the strange noise whenever I use my mousewheel on cirtin webpages like
http://www.nvidia.com/page/newsandevents.html

If you want to see if you have the flicker problem do this. Run the Dusk Ultra demo then alt+tab to your web browser. Go to google and other sites with white backgrounds. Tell me thats not annoying. The flicker only happens when running some 3d program and not just viewing the desktop.

Anyways, I just took the time to reg on this board to toss my problems in the pot with everyone else. I hope we get a fix soon.

I am using an MSI K7T266 Pro (MS-6380) + MSI 5900 FX ULTRA.
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Old 08-23-03, 04:43 AM   #231
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Just to verify your program 'OMK', the 9800P shows no flicker. Believe me, I know what 'the flicker' looks like!

Even though I finally made my last exchange to an ATI (Two PNY5900U before that), I'm still very curious of what NVIDIA’s solution will be.
What's sad, it's been over a month since I bought that first PNY! I hate to say this fellows, I am so glad I exchaged it before the 14 day CompUSA thingy ran out!!!


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Old 08-23-03, 04:43 AM   #232
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LO all

I got a response back from UK MSI Support saying they know of no issues regarding noises and flickering, but they've passed the issue onto their main base in Tiawan... I know this is a broad issue not just relating to MSIs product, so lets hope they find something (seems odd that GFX card makers never saw this origionally!!!), but let's hope they find something and then report back to Nvidia their findings so they can sort it out!!!

Did people know that there's allso issues around using the new 45.23 drivers and FOG in openGL games (e.g. MOH/Wolfystien and SOF2)?? Well there is.... it has something to do with OpenGL that's all I know..
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Old 08-23-03, 07:48 AM   #233
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Quote:
Originally posted by OMK
Attached is a zip file with a *tiny* DX8 program (NVBlinky.exe) that shows
the flickering problem (at least on my setup and one other persons setup).
It should be useful for quickly verifying if you have the problem or if anything that you do fixes the problem.

It is most effective when run on an analog monitor.

A VC++ 6 project with the source is included for the curious and the suspicious among you. Compilation requires the DX8 SDK. All the program
does is draw a set of points whose geometry is updated 10 times a second.

let me know how it works for you.

Enjoy.
Thanks A Million OMK, I've been waiting for you to post this app since you first mentioned it (on another forums somewhere in a galaxy far, far away... )

My brother now can see the Flicker that I asked him if he can see before and now he can see it. I then switched back to a game (Medal Of Honor) and he then started to notice it. Now at least some people wont think I'm seeing things
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Old 08-23-03, 11:11 PM   #234
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Of course you see it in every game! Duh! It's a hardware problem. It's not game dependant... it's not a software problem and not a driver problem. Happens all the time in 3D mode... the only thing that varies is how noticeable it is, because of what a game displays. Its MOST noticeable on light background and especially when you move the mouse up and down. Well, the best way to see it is when looking at light blue STATIC image, and moving the mouse.... you don't want the image to move when you move the mouse. Look at a light blue or sky part of the image... the more static the image the better, and move the mouse up and down. I bet you EVERYONE will see it in this scenario. Or just load up Etherlords, go into Duel mode, and load the Red Desert level and look at the sky. It will strobe. Now move the mouse. It will strobe 2X worse! This test also has the advantage of not moving the picture when you move the mouse and thereby tricking your eye.
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Old 08-24-03, 02:02 AM   #235
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Default GRRRRRRRRRR! not happy!

Flickering no Buzz yes!!

Also noticed buzz occurs not only with the mouse wheel but also when you maximise a windowed browser screen with white in it!
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Old 08-24-03, 04:49 AM   #236
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Default Long thread....

After reading through this entire thread I have noticed some consistencies with people with these flickering and rolling lines and noise from the video card voltage reg circuitry.......I have noticed that most (not all) people who have these or similar problems have a combination of 1. Enermax power supplies 2. eVGA video cards 3. MSI video cards 4. Asus video cards 5. PNY video cards. A few other notable exceptions like Gainward and Leadtec but for the most part the common thread seems to be Enermax power supplies (although I did see one where my chosen PS was also involved ...Antec TruPower 430W.) I have read this thread with interest as I am soon to purchase and build a new PC with a Gainward FX 5900 Ultra 256M. I am hoping that it is more related to the cheaper manufacturers such as the eVGA and PNY and the Enermax power supplies that are infamous for fluctuating voltage rails. I was reading to help me decide if I wanted to get the 5900 or the 9800 Pro from ATI...I am still not convinced as to which way to go. I don't think it is all Nvidia's fault or all the manufacturers fault, but I think more of the blame is on the various manufacturers for using cheaper components to cut corners than on Nvidia. I believe in "you get what you pay for" and at $400+ for a video card you should get more than what you are complaining about for sure... but I always pay more for a video card from manufacturers I know use quality components to avoid such things..(power supplies too for that matter). I don't know if it helps or not but those with these problems maybe you could try a higher QUALITY power supply (not necessarily higher wattage) with your current video card and see if it helps. I use the aforementioned Antec 430W power supply. If someone could try the Antec 430 with a Gainward 5900 Ultra 256M and post results I (and others here I am sure) would appreciate it greatly. You could assuage my fears or save me from making a costly mistake. Thanks in advance.

Just read in another thread that several others with the Gainward cards have the flicker too....hmmmmm.
Maybe it is time to go to the darkside and get the 9800 Pro 256?

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Old 08-24-03, 07:46 AM   #237
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Well, I'm using an Antec 330W and a Creative 5900 Ultra and I get the flickering. Not terribly, but it's there.
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Old 08-24-03, 09:10 AM   #238
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Nexus 300w here and I have the flickering problem on Creative, Gainward, Reference etc. boards.

I have checked with two boards that appeared to use different voltage regulators (they looked very different) and they still have the exact same problems.

ronnuke
I think your description only fits because those are generally common components that you mention

sorta like if Windows XP had a bug with audio and people started reporting it it would look as if it perhaps was a Creative problem since creative has by far the most soundscards out there

and besides PNY eVGA etc. are all identical,
in fact all 5900 Ultra boards are identical right now, it has nothing to do with "cheap" manufacturers at all since they all buy their stuff from the same source and just put their stickers on it

in fact not even the non-Ultra differ much

check this out:
http://www.nordichardware.com/UndaC/FX/

Can you guess which are 5900 and which are 5900 Ultra?
(as you can see the PCB itself is also identical except some odd few components and the color)

I think the only reason why this seems more common on non-Ultras is simple because they are clocked lower
because on the cards I've tried the problems become worse once you start overclocking
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Old 08-24-03, 02:27 PM   #239
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I'm using an Antec Trupower 430W and an eVga 5900 Ultra and I get the flickering.
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Old 08-24-03, 04:40 PM   #240
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Default Related article...

I was researching this problem and discovered this review of an Asus FX5900 Ultra 256 that apparently is the only video card that is not manufactured by Nvidia completely. Check it out: http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardwa..._ultra_review/
I didn't know this before, I thought each manufacturer made their own PCB's and just used the Nvidia chips...turns out I was wrong.

I still believe it is a power related issue whether from the main power supply feeding the auxiliary power connector on the video card fluctating due to poor quality power supplies or probably more likely the voltage regulation circuitry on the video cards is not up to the task of providing constant power to the power hungry chips.

I sure hope they sort this out soon so I can stay with Nvidia, I don't really want to get the ATI 9800 Pro 256M but I will if I have to to avoid these type of problems.
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Old 08-24-03, 04:52 PM   #241
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Look at the layout, it's identical to the reference one.
It's just a different colored PCB perhaps manufactured somewhere else but still using the same PCB layout and by the looks of it also identical components.

I've had 5 boards here, all except one looked, to me, 100 % identical except color.

If the reference design had some flaw not related to one specific component (say bad brand of voltage regulator) then perhaps the bug in the reference design just gets passed down the the ones based on it.

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Old 08-24-03, 05:00 PM   #242
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They are using a different (cheaper) video encoder chip. The "reference design" uses the Philips SAA7108AE video encoder chip while the Asus 9950 uses a Silicon Image chip. I don't know if that makes any difference to the problems we are having here or not, just pointing it out. You are right though, the layout is the same as the reference design.
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Old 08-25-03, 07:58 AM   #243
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Class action? This is ridiculous. I think I will write Maximum PC and see if "the Dog" can help us get some action.
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Old 08-25-03, 07:15 PM   #244
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(sorry for my english first)

i'm a owner of a gainward fx 59 ultra gs since 2 month now.

first what i saw after installing this card is flickering.
as everyone knows mostly in bright backgrounds in 3d-mode.
(i can even notice it in 2d when i look very very carefuly)

i tried every setting possible in drivers, bios what could be 3d-card related.
i also tested several connectors of my psu (enermax 363)

well what did i do? i took my whole pc to the shop where i bought the card.
5 people where in there. only me and and other could notice the flickering!!! best example is loading the map el alamein in bf1942.

so I'm quit sure almost every card got that problem but some people just can't see it.

so first we tested another fx ulta by gainward in my system.
it flickered.

then we tested both cards in a complet other pc without sound-hardware and different psu manufacturer (can't remember which one) and on a tft (analog).
it fickered.

then the shop-owner told me i can exchange it for a 9800pro and get the rest of my money back. but i wanted to keep the ultra.
well he had no other fx ulta board in store but short after they got the msi fx ultra with the dual-flow design. tested..
it flickered.

at the time i couldnt find anything about this in the internet.

so i just kept played games with flickering...

and now.... this is strange...

my flickering is almost gone!!! i didn't change anything in my system.
but when i start games like bf1942 or cnc generals the flickering is mostly not or less noticable. this is no joke. i'm sure my eyes didnt get worst or something. before that i could notice it very quick and easily.

another example is 3dmark03, when the mark is loading the first scene with the white background it always flickered.

is this somehow possible? (e.g. capasitor on the board?)

or is it just my imagination which tells me not to see it anymore.


i can't explain how but it's definitly better as before.
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Old 08-25-03, 07:34 PM   #245
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Why haven't we heard from Nvidia?
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Old 08-26-03, 03:30 AM   #246
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Quote:
Originally posted by ishak540m
Why haven't we heard from Nvidia?
Because they are still busy finding a solution to the problem which not that easy to solve...
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Old 08-26-03, 04:55 AM   #247
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Morrow, do you have inside information??
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Old 08-26-03, 05:16 PM   #248
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Quote:
ddrake (Jul 23, 2003 4:22:46 PM)
would you ask if they have any idea about the flicker problem that some of use are having

nvidia_steve (Jul 23, 2003 4:22:46 PM)
The EVGA guys have filed a bug with us and we are looking into it now. These type of things take time to track down since everyone's configuration is different in the retail space. We will let the EVGA guys know as soon as we find something.
http://www.evga.com/articles/public.asp?AID=145


humm.....
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Old 08-26-03, 06:14 PM   #249
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But that chat was over a month ago and i've seen nothing from Nvidia since. This is alarming given:

a) The number of people who recognise the problem and are reporting it here and at eVGA.
b) The simple repro cases people have posted here (Blinky especially).
c) Nvidia have seen the problem and have an affected setup.

Given that I was able to rid myself of the flicker by switching to a completely digital setup ( DVI-D to LCD ), my suspicion is that the fault lies outside the GPU and is a problem with the card itself. So given Nvidias silence I suspect the problem is more significant than I originally feared.

Given the price on these parts, I am amazed that Nvidia haven't provided any feedback or an explanation let alone a fix in over a month. If they don't get their finger out, I can only imagine that they have decided to tough it out and hope that the problem will go away...
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Old 08-27-03, 02:09 AM   #250
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Well that doesn't supprise me at all!! I've heard so much mention relating to PSUs so I've decided to buy a non-substandard PSU (Antec Truepower 550) which I'll be installing tonight... let's see if this resolves my flicker/clicking issues...

I'll keep you posted....

Nvidia, let someone know what the feck is happening....... or you'll loose us to ATI
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