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Old 08-29-03, 09:39 AM   #301
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flavius
Damnit, I'm starting to think you and Nvidia have seen some DIFFERENT kind of flicker issue that appears on both cards, not the 5900 alone, and the wrong problem will be fixed.
nvidia is working on the right problem, relax.
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Old 08-29-03, 09:46 AM   #302
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flavius
Damnit, I'm starting to think you and Nvidia have seen some DIFFERENT kind of flicker issue that appears on both cards, not the 5900 alone, and the wrong problem will be fixed.
Easy there. I'm trying my very best to detect flickering on my BFG 5900Ultra. I'm not NVIDIA and have no ties to them. My goal is to try and detect flickering on my 5900Ultra and then try to troubleshoot from that point on. The fact is, however, that in my case I simply have no problems in Windows or games (with the exception of this UT2K3Bench issue that I'm trying to find out more on).

I do not discount that there is a legitimate problem with some NVIDIA cards (and some Radeon cards, just check out Rage3d.com's forums), I'd be a fool to do so. What confuses me is that including myself I know of at least five other people that own 5900Ultras and they have no problems either.

All of us here at nV News want to get to the bottom of this as much as anyone and pinpoint the cause and hopefully discover a solution.
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Old 08-29-03, 09:52 AM   #303
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Sorry guys, thanks for the reassurances. Found me a gamer girlfriend and now I can't play UT2K3 with her because of this issue, hence some frustration. My ex divorced me I think it part because I played too much Quake. Curse that Carmack...
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Old 08-29-03, 09:56 AM   #304
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flavius
Sorry guys, thanks for the reassurances. Found me a gamer girlfriend and now I can't play UT2K3 with her because of this issue, hence some frustration. My ex divorced me I think it part because I played too much Quake. Curse that Carmack...
No problem man. It's refreshing to see someone like yourself react with maturity and class. Text-centric communication is a slippery slope sometimes and it's easy to get reactionary. I appreciate your problem and hope that we can all find a solution soon.
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Old 08-29-03, 11:34 AM   #305
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Hi ,

it took me some time to find out iam not the only one with a flickering 5900er , so i rust read the whole thread from the beginning with great interrest.

The silence from NV lets the buyers of the Video-Cards speculate about whats the cause for the very disturbing flickering.

I have an Asus 9950FX in an Asus A7N8X Mobo,
both pieces are build around a NVIDIA-created Core-Chip(set).
When those both not fit together, what then?
I changed my old PSU for an Enermax 465W one.
I think this should be sufficent for a Mobo, a VideoCard and one HardDrive.

Originaly discovered the flickering in Operation Flashpoint the first time,i soon found out, that flickering is "best" seen on the D3D-Samples which are delivered within the DirectX-SoftwareDeveloperKit.
These render 3D-Hardware-Accelerated Stuff in a scaleable window and refresh at many times they can.The bigger you scale a window, the more the "load" of the GPU is and the more the flickering is noteable.
(You can open as many Samples as you like.)
On the other hand, the smaller a window become, the framerate increases and so the squiezing sound.

By the way : the flickering stays even when the app is in background or minimized, strange thing...
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Old 08-29-03, 12:11 PM   #306
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Welcome SeppSchrot! Appreciate your input. At this point we're not much help but still working on finding cause of the problem. Nvidia may already know but they have not said anything. Morrow indicated that a statement from them may be forth-coming. Hope so, this has gone on a little too long. At this point I just hope there is a fix!

I can make it happen on a 5900U that normally does not suffer from flickering or the sound problem but only in one instance so far on one screen and nowhere else. I can do the same with a 9800Pro. ActiveX may be involved but I cannot verify that yet.
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Old 08-29-03, 06:33 PM   #307
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Geforce 5XXX card's are a rush job. Ati 9800pros does not flicker or make noise. I hear 9700s have the problem.
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Old 08-29-03, 10:27 PM   #308
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Omg, Tron 2 doesn't flicker!!

Well, it does, sorta, but that's because it's COOL, and Light Cycles kick f'ing *ss!
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Old 08-30-03, 12:04 AM   #309
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That is interesting that you can no longer see it with AA and AF enabled. The blinky test did not reveal any flickering on the board I have. But to answer your question, yes, I did test at least 3 different resolutions with AA and AF enabled. I always used 8xAF setting when testing with AA enabled.

1600x1200 is a killer with 4xAA or higher settings to the point most newer graphically demanding games are not playable to me (less than 30fps average). Even 2xAA enabled generally gave a 50%+ hit in FPS but games such as UT2K3 were still very playable and in fact ran smooth.












Yes, it is a complete test in that I tested three seperate screen resolutions with No AA, 4xAA, 8xAA. Where enabling AA I used 8xAF.
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Old 08-30-03, 02:44 PM   #310
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It all boils down to personal preference. What you like or at least what is acceptable to you. Maybe we will have an answer to the flickering soon.
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Old 08-30-03, 03:33 PM   #311
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This is strange...I've tested several games including UT2003,NWN,Warcraft 3 and the flickering has been there more or less depending on the game,but today i've tested the Call of duty demo and the flickering was gone!
The game is a little dark, but i looked for a long time and it wasn't there.

Since RoachMojo didn't detected the flickering with Tron 2.0 maybe this is somekind of driver issue after all.

Maybe some other people could try these games out and see if it's gone for them too.
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Old 08-30-03, 05:35 PM   #312
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This is strange...I've tested several games including UT2003,NWN,Warcraft 3 and the flickering has been there more or less depending on the game,but today i've tested the Call of duty demo and the flickering was gone!
The game is a little dark, but i looked for a long time and it wasn't there.

Since RoachMojo didn't detected the flickering with Tron 2.0 maybe this is somekind of driver issue after all.

Maybe some other people could try these games out and see if it's gone for them too.



If its dark, and at fast FPS, then your eyes cant see the flicker but its still there.

Its like that for me playing UT2K3... at 1600x1200 my fps varies a bit depending on where i am..... in a dark area with not much detail @ 80fps i can barely see the flicker if at all.... but once i move into a bright area and with more detail @ 50 fps the flicker stands out much more.


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Old 09-01-03, 03:50 PM   #313
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Hi,

I've the creative GF5900 Ultra..

No flickering/pulse to my perception..
No sound either..

And believe me, I'm part of the people that remark things that few people do, you know, those things that when remarked ruin everything..

Well, for exemple, before I heard of all that crisis..what I discovered, like another reviewer on a website I don't remember the name, is the "gamma" correction..

-> go to your desktop
-> focus on your blue WInxp background (no wallpaper of course
-> push the Windows buton (start menu opens)
-> Release your Windows buton
-> and repetedly..

You should remark that the brightness is differentiating..

-> tested other cards (included the R9700) and I've to say that this doesn't occurs of course..


Well, I'm completely surprised.. Not being part with you having a completly deffective card. Am I luckily buying often creative's lower cost card?

My system:

Athelon XP 2600/333
Asus Deluxe Nforce2
1Go DDR 333
Creative Geforce FX 5900Ultra
Windows XP SP1 with MS03-026, 027, 030 & 031 :-)


Frankly, can I? Frankly I think enough is enough. I was part of the first R9700Pro owners with all the games freezing constently.. Trying for 1-2 months everything imaginable to try discovering where was the problem..
That was already to much $$$ for a deffective card..
The solution you probably know by now -> disable AGP8x.
Few cards are really ready for AGP8x, and this only with few Mobos.
Even my GF5900 did some freeze with AGP8x, none with 4x

What I am telling is that enough is enough.. ATI never said publicly that their R9700 wheren't AGP8x compliant, and I just discovered 2 collaborators which weren't playing because kinda all their games were freezing ! AGP4x and everything get solved !! DAMN, !! Better months and months of troube on millions of customers THAN TELLING PUBLICALY "Hey, put your card on AGP4x..Sorry"

Now it's Nvidia's time, with a 500$ card! And I doubt there will ever be a driver/bios patch. THere will be a new revision, or new card, and period.

I'm realy sorry of this situation, possible only because we, as avid gamers, are ok to give thousands and thousands dollars per years to be threated as ******.. this because what we'll do the following second is to ask for ... more...


OK, too long post that won't help.. Sorry, and sorry for the bad english.
I sincerly hope (but doubt) Nvidia will threat their customers like Intel did (and like in many, many other business where customer mean something..)

Hope to write other posts which I promise will be shorter I'll do as I've a impression that message boards are becoming again respectfull & peacfull places.. (perhaps it's just an impression - I left when the only thing readable were immature stupid flame wars (CPU, MOBO, GFX, Pencil, Joystick, Console, Color, Mouse, etc.. "put your Corporate Brand name" war

EBE
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Old 09-01-03, 06:54 PM   #314
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Well..

In fact I've only few games installed.. one of them is SWG, and I at first thought the game was flickering like hell because the 30fps cap...

PLease answer me, I am wrong isn't it? Even with a 30fps cap the screen shouldn't flicken like Hell (hurting our eyes for sure)?

I checked and for sure haven't the pulse (hopefully).. but perhaps I simply don't see it (use a Samsung NF959 19" CRT, constantly 100hz thankx to powerstrip, with alway Vsynch ON).. Dunno, but for sure no pulse in the system boot or/and nothing strange while in the BIOS..

No crazy sound too..

BF1942 is clearly dozen times less fine-looking than with my Radeon.. ..
But I had the opposite impression already when I moved from the Geforce4 to the radeon.. No comparison in IQ personnaly

Well me think, like others, that it's general.. people simply don't see/remark it, as explained many times, the system with its monitor enter in account, with more or less flickering and pulse..

Well, came back to nvidia 'cause the last Radeon's fiasco, to be welcomed by Nvidia with a worse fiasco :-) Definitively, I'll never again buy any GFX before at least 3 months next to its (widely) release.. Which card would I buy today if it wasn't already done? If you aren't in any way one kind of fanboy, you know the response..


Greetings

EBE

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Old 09-02-03, 11:01 AM   #315
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I just hope that Morrow is accurate and this problem gets addressed this week by Brian Burke. I do hope it is a simple fix on our end and doesn't require a new card. So far, owning a 5900 Ultra has not been that pleasurable of an experience. With the flickering, scroll beeping, driver "cheat" issues, HL2, and now poor PS2.0 performance, I am starting to wonder if I should have invested in the 5900. On top of that it is likely that we may get flicker free cards just in time for Nvidia to announce the NV38 which will probably correct all the 5900's problems. This is enough for me to go to console gaming now. A PS2, Xbox, and Gamecube combined don't add up to what I had to spend on moderately fast computers- plus I can rent all the games for the consoles.

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Old 09-02-03, 01:19 PM   #316
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well ive just about lost my patience.... its been over a month and neither MSI nor nvidia has a solution. MSI has stopped responding to my tech support emails, so i can only assume they havnt any answers.

I am setting up the refund/return process through my online retailer and if i dont hear some good news soon i am sending this card back.

Ill use the money to get a new cpu instead and wait for the nv38.

bah!


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Old 09-02-03, 10:43 PM   #317
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Well it's been a week and no solution. Guess ill check back next week.
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Old 09-03-03, 02:25 AM   #318
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Well, guys I got this back from GAINWARD regarding my sound issues with the Geforce FX5900 Ultra!! I sent mine back and got the MSI but it's some response... altohugh the noise issue went away after installing the Antec truepower 550 PSU!!

Here it is.....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So sorry late for reply your mail.
We really find the sound of this graphic card when use some application.
But it doesn't effect the function and operating.
We also feedback this condition to EDOM company which is nVIDIA sole agency in Taiwan.
EDOM feedback to nVIDIA and nVIDIA reply to EDOM as following:

" I have seen this before. And I believe this is normal manufacturing variance in inductor technology. Basically the glue inside the inductor is not doing its job, and the wires are rattling. I have heard this from other products in the field. This does not effect the product from operating correctly, just more noisy. If this is a show stopper we may have to push back on the inductor manufacturers..."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmmmm, I guess gainward ain't that bothered?? and have shrugged it off as being normal........ (sorry modorators for my next statement) That's BOLLOX! I would strongly urge people not to buy GAINWARDS FX5900 series!!
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Old 09-03-03, 08:50 AM   #319
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Quote:
would strongly urge people not to buy GAINWARDS FX5900 series
I would strongly urge people not to buy any Nvidia product period until they start using quality components and engineering that do not make noise or FLICKER! For $500 we deserve no less. If you spent $500 on a receiver for example, you'd get some high end equipment where every compenent was probably hand picked and gold plated! Nvidia, WHERE ARE YOU?
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Old 09-03-03, 09:38 AM   #320
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flavius
I would strongly urge people not to buy any Nvidia product period until they start using quality components and engineering that do not make noise or FLICKER! For $500 we deserve no less. If you spent $500 on a receiver for example, you'd get some high end equipment where every compenent was probably hand picked and gold plated! Nvidia, WHERE ARE YOU?
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Old 09-03-03, 10:28 AM   #321
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FYI: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11359
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Old 09-03-03, 10:53 AM   #322
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At least it's getting some media attention. If only Maximum PC or CPU would cover this issue. Even if it is "noise", the problem is so widespread that is no excuse. Nothing else in my PC is malfunctioning because of this "noise". I can run Memtest86 for a week with no problems. There will always be "noise" inside a PC, and there has always been. Noise is a plausible explanation, because it always strobed worse when I moved the mouse, and I know from previous experience with older PCs that if have a poorly shielded audio card and you crank the volume, you will actually HEAR THINGS in the speakers when you move the mouse. But this problem has been around for decades, their engineers should have been aware of it. It's no excuse for a poorly shielded, poor quality product.
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Old 09-03-03, 10:57 AM   #323
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I have noticed the flickering and black lines showing up on my LCD screen with the MSI FX5900 video card. I attributed this to heat buildup. I attached a water block to the radiators as an assist to help cool the card down and the flickering and black lines went away. This problem only showed up when playing Rise of Nations at 1920x1200 resolution. My CPU/memory/disks are water cooled.

FYI: I live in the Bay Area if the guys at Nvidia are still interested in looking at systems with this problem.

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Old 09-03-03, 11:29 AM   #324
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flavius
I would strongly urge people not to buy any Nvidia product period until they start using quality components and engineering that do not make noise or FLICKER! For $500 we deserve no less. If you spent $500 on a receiver for example, you'd get some high end equipment where every compenent was probably hand picked and gold plated! Nvidia, WHERE ARE
YOU?
Had a BFG 5900nu, now have a 9800pro built by ATI. I Could'nt more satisfied. I bet if Visiontec had'nt left the scene, the new nv card's, would be a hell of a lot better. But I dont care any more, waited to long. 9800 is all I need now. Would'nt pay $10 for flawed video card.
Everyone should spread the word!


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Old 09-03-03, 11:30 AM   #325
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I have to say, I'm concerned about the lack of feedback (info) from Nvidia, MSI, Gainward (well stupid feedback) etc... What the F**K is going on here??? Seems to me (and I'm a nvidia man myself), but it seems to me that ATI will come out on top here!!!

I admit upgrading my PSU was a benificial move where the sound issue was concerened and that most of the flickering has gone away wit a few exceptions....... sadly.

Nvidia have the neccesary resource to throw various PCs together from various hardware vendors to investigate these issues...... seems to me they are stalling!! I ask the imortal question of 'WHY?' and 'Have I bought a dead duck, or what??' 400 worth of crap!!??

OK, OK.. I'm pissed with all this mollarchy but come on don't we deserve answers.... where's a WATCHDOG when you need one!! Seems to me Nvidia are more interested in their next NV chipset, next gen GFX card...... I see them now... come on chaps stuff this issue with the FX5900s we need to get our new card out before ATI release theirs!!!???? Seems to me it's about winning te Nvidia/ATI war...... and we the innocent victims!!!

That article over at The Inquirer hit the mark though...... sadly
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