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Old 08-06-03, 11:15 PM   #51
Flavius
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Default Chaintech 5900 affected! Cause found!

I just RMAed a Chaintech 5900 non-Ultra card because of the flickering problem. It was pretty severe, especially when 4X/8X seettings were on. Basically, the screen flickered as though it was 60Hz, but ONLY when I moved my mouse in 3D games! It didn't matter if the mouse was USB or PS2. I tried everything. Only thing that fixed it was to put in my old Geforce4 Ti200. I discovered the cause though. While fiddling, I accidentally misconnected the card's power at one point, the card came up saying the power was misconnected. It ran fine anyway, just slower. Well, the time the power wasn't coming into the card is when the flickering stopped completely! SO, it has something to do with the AUX power input of the card! I have a top of the line Enermax 350W power supply though, which I'm not about to change. This is terrible because I just returned a 9800 PRO ALSO because it kept crashing my old games! The only decent card it seems is my old Leadtek GF4 Ti200! Anyway, someone needs to tell Nvidia about this. I don't have their contact info so please pass this along. It's basically a card engineering bug! ATI has had similar bugs, they are no better. If someone can tell me a brand of 5900 card that does NOT have this problem at all, I'd be very happy! Thanks.
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Old 08-06-03, 11:27 PM   #52
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Also, here's a scenario where it will always happen and be VERY noticeable: Load up the game Etherlords, select Duel, then the Red Desert Level. Now move the mouse, slow or fast, and watch the sky especially. You'd swear you were in 60Hz even though you're in 100Hz! Did nothing else but swap out for my GF4 and booom, problem gone! The res I used for testing was 1024x768x32x100Hz. It ONLY flickers when you move the mouse! If you don't move the mouse, NO FLICKER!

Last edited by Flavius; 08-07-03 at 12:18 AM.
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Old 08-07-03, 12:13 AM   #53
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Default I posted earlier...

Just want to say that if I played Battlefield 1942 with either my 5800 Ultra or 5600 Ultra the game was unplayable with no matter what settings I used. I play my games in 120hz and the way I fixed all problems with the cards was to simply turn off SYSTEM RESTORE in Windows XP. Once I disabled this all my games worked fine... Yes everyone is correct also that with an older card like a 4600TI fixes the problem also but it has something to do with SYSTEM RESTORE and these newer cards... All you can do is test it, you can always turn SYSTEM RESTORE back on if it doesn't work... But it worked for me like a charm and of course with my new 600 Watt Power Supply...
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Old 08-07-03, 12:20 AM   #54
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Man, I can't believe that. If its system restore, then how come it didn't happen on the 5900 when I didn't connect the power cable to it?? I'm going to drag the card out of the box I was about to RMA it in to test this System Restore theory of yours. If you are wrong I will hunt you down and whip you good for wasting my time!
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Old 08-07-03, 12:22 AM   #55
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You know what, I won't test it. You must be seeing stuttering due to System Restore bogging you down or something, not the flickering we are all talking about. Can anyone else confirm that disabling System Restore fixes the problem? Quick before I RMA my card!
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Old 08-07-03, 12:49 AM   #56
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I have to add that I also had a 9800 Pro card that I RMAed because it crashed older games. It was in the same system and also used a 4 pin power connector. It did NOT flicker at all under the same conditions! By contrast a 9500 Pro card I had with a small style power connector caused rolling lines in the same system. So the problem here is that the manufacturers are cheaping out on their filtering circuitry and shiedling. We have to demand highest quality components on these cards!
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Old 08-07-03, 12:50 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flavius
You know what, I won't test it. You must be seeing stuttering due to System Restore bogging you down or something, not the flickering we are all talking about. Can anyone else confirm that disabling System Restore fixes the problem? Quick before I RMA my card!
Why you being lazy?

No, it doesn't fix it. Just checked it
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Old 08-07-03, 01:28 AM   #58
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Default It doesn't hurt to test...

I was upset also because I RMA my 5800 ultra a few weeks ago because my system all of a sudden showed me a large bar code of colors on the screen during post and in Windows, I could tell I was in Windows because I could hear the sound when entering and it worked fine from March until then.

Then I bought the 5600 Ultra and had same exact problem...

So I RMA my mobo which was a 1.0 board and purchased a new 2.0 board.

After both of those new purchases and RMA's I still had same problem...

Last thing was to get a new power supply I threw out my 350 watt and bought a 600 watt and everything is fine now.

I also re-formatted my system and re-installed everything and that's when I went to play BF with my new video card to see how it played and that's when I noticed all the stuttering and I mean real bad I couldn't play, it looked as if it were lag, but I wasn't playing online I tested while playing single player...

I remembered that I had same problem back when my 5800 Ultra was in and my system was new back in March of this year.

It was the SYSTEM RESTORE feature in Windows XP...

I'm sorry if it doesn't work for everyone but it worked both times for me like a charm...

You can also turn off INDEXING on the drives also, but you must do a defrag once you disable these, because it opens up space and fragments the hell out of the drive.
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Old 08-07-03, 01:48 AM   #59
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Default Re: "Flickering", "Quivering" and "rolling lines"--NVIDIA needs your h

Quote:
Originally posted by BB NVPR
We have become aware that both NVIDIA and competitor’s cards are experiencing similar problems that are described as “flickering”, “rolling lines” or “quivering” in different forum posts. Here are a couple of examples:

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...threadid=15467

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthre...0&pagenumber=1

NVIDIA has been investigating these problems; we are having a difficult time reproducing the issue. We are under the impression it is a noise issue, not a graphics card issue and is system specific.

In an effort to find a solution, we ask that anyone in the Bay area the who is experiencing this issue on an NVIDIA GPU and would like to visit NVIDIA with the system in tow contact us. We can use the system to identify the problem and see if we can resolve the issue. You will be doing a favor to NVIDIA and a service to the community. We will also make sure you leave with an arm full of NVIDIA swag!

First come first served! We can not look at every system in the Bay area, sorry.
Contact bburke@nvidia.com.
I have seen this problem and your right it is a noise problem.
Not from the graphics card at all it would happed with any card installed any chip but would change a little with each.
It seems to come from combination of motherboard and PSU and monitor.
I work as a tech and see this very often,
I also was working in the RMA dept in a monitor company so I knew just what it was.
The fix most of the time is cable to monitor which has a bad/poor connection at the card.
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Old 08-07-03, 02:22 AM   #60
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I beg to differ man, I used 5 different cards in identical system and only 1 of them would do the rolling lines thingy so...
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Old 08-07-03, 03:47 AM   #61
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I would suggest if it is a power filtering issue that you could try using a choke on the aux power connector. Something similar to this, a $5 radio shack part. In general it sounds to me like it's induced by ripple in the supply. Which could be from crappy PSU filtering, poor line power, poor chassis ground on the PC/monitor, poorly isolated analog and digital gnd planes on the video/motherboard PCBs, poorly earthed wall outlet, recieved EMI, etc., etc... not exactly something that is easy to isolate from a consumer standpoint.
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Old 08-07-03, 04:28 AM   #62
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My freind and I have a 9700Pro ver 1.1, they were purchased at the same time, Sept 02, same place and look identical.
On his PC he would get wavy lines so we swapped the graphics cards around and with my card the lines were gone. He then changed the motherboard , (Asus PT533c to Asus P4G8X Deluxe), and the wavy lines with his own 9700Pro were gone.
I put his card in my old Asus CUSL2 and Aopen AX4R+ and there were no wavy line effects. During the tests we also changed PSU's from 360w to 550w and used different brands, used different monitors and had the PC's stripped to barbones levels but without any positive effects.
It would seem that the graphics cards were not the cause of problem but rather some motherboards are creating RFI from the HF region oscillators which are within the same range of the graphics cards data pixel rate which can also be at the HF region. While I never tried it at the time, for ppl that still have the problem it maybe worth experimenting by connecting 100 pF capacitors from the RGB, H-Sync and V-Sync to ground.
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Old 08-07-03, 07:25 AM   #63
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Default Re: It doesn't hurt to test...

Quote:
Originally posted by Cellar Dweller
I also re-formatted my system and re-installed everything and that's when I went to play BF with my new video card to see how it played and that's when I noticed all the stuttering and I mean real bad I couldn't play, it looked as if it were lag, but I wasn't playing online I tested while playing single player...

I remembered that I had same problem back when my 5800 Ultra was in and my system was new back in March of this year.

It was the SYSTEM RESTORE feature in Windows XP...

I'm sorry if it doesn't work for everyone but it worked both times for me like a charm...

You can also turn off INDEXING on the drives also, but you must do a defrag once you disable these, because it opens up space and fragments the hell out of the drive.
Dude, we aren't talking about stuttering problems in this thread, we're talking about some people getting flickering on their screen.
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Old 08-07-03, 07:34 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by volt
I have also reported "noise" annoyance to Brian. I'm kind of mixed up though. I have a Prolink FX 5900 which is supposed to be custom made PCB. Could be an early NVIDIA revision with yellow paint slapped on
Hi volt, I have this problem too. It only happens with my 5900 ultra and not with fx5200, ti4600, ti4200, mx440, 9700pro and 9800 pro.

The noise is heared while scrolling, resizing windows , maximizing, etc. (its not audible when my case is closed)

People have reported that unticking smooth scrolling in IE solves some of the noise. Some others also say that with windows default drivers, nothing is emmitted.

Fan or Voltage problems?

I hope nvidia solves this soon since my brother's card (2nd card) can be heared pretty well (maybe its because he's using onboard sound)

Sorry Mr Brian Burke, i can't help, i'm way off Bay area waaay off (europe)
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Old 08-07-03, 07:48 AM   #65
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One other thing. I suggested those that have the problem try altering the clocks on the video card to see if it made a difference.

However, if the problem is located after the RAMDACS and before the video connector, altering the internal clocks of the video car may not have any effect.
For this, you would have to alter the monitor's refresh rate and the horizontal clock as well. This can cause a squashed video, which might make it more difficult to see the problem, but it is something to try. It should not have to be changed much.
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Old 08-07-03, 09:15 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by Skuzzy
One other thing. I suggested those that have the problem try altering the clocks on the video card to see if it made a difference.

However, if the problem is located after the RAMDACS and before the video connector, altering the internal clocks of the video car may not have any effect.
For this, you would have to alter the monitor's refresh rate and the horizontal clock as well. This can cause a squashed video, which might make it more difficult to see the problem, but it is something to try. It should not have to be changed much.

That's what I suggested to mod volt but he wouldn't risk it...
anybody brave enough to try? (at your own risk)
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Old 08-07-03, 09:30 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark_fox
I beg to differ man, I used 5 different cards in identical system and only 1 of them would do the rolling lines thingy so...
That one may have a bad vga connector, which is causing noise now change the cable to vga and the noise may be gone.
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Old 08-07-03, 10:13 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by ronterry
I have to step in here for a minute...Please spot blaming it on people’s hardware, hell my 9800P is working fine & before that my GeForce3 worked great. IT'S THE CARD, nothing more. Weather it's drivers, bios, or the board - It's still the card...

No one here should have to replace this, or replace that to get the 5900 to work properly.
I'm sorry, but I for one am not going to wrap my case in aluminum foil or what ever...

BTW: Mine was on an APC BackUps Pro 1100...

Ron
Something doesn't sit well with me on your statement, so please allow me to explain my opinion and see if you might be able to see what I do.

Why did you get PC3500 for your P4/Abit IC7-G instead of PC3200? Simple, you took steps to ensure the potential for success with your P4/mobo combo or you got what the sales man said would be a great system without looking into it.

With the way some companies had been lately using cheap capacitors to save money *MSI, I wouldn't hold it past them to find a way to recoup some lost profits from the NV30 to possibly have some infleunce on what is going on. However, with the amounts of people who have the problem vs. the amount who don't kinda make it sound system specific. The only thing I keep seeing is 5900. Would be cool to see brand names rather than just the model # of which card you have and is causing the problem. Even put it in your signature to there is no confusion as to what you had.

Saying my 5900 this or my 9800 that doesn't specify if the problem is chip related or manufacturer related.

Back to what I was saying about your Abit mobo/memory, you took some steps to ensure it would be successful. Ever hear that expression "You wouldn't put 87 octane in a Ferrari expecting it to perform like a race car would you?" ATi had similar problems with the first version of their 9700Pro if you recall which ended up changing the PCB design a bit with the addition of 2 capacitors added to a section near the GPU. ATi also said it was driver related although why add the additional capacitors on the PCB then? Because they are taking measures to ensure the success of the product.

There seems to be a new trend on the rise if you hadn't noticed. Components of all sorts are becoming more sensitive it seems to other things. Hell, we even have Speed Spectrum as a BIOS options now that is suppose to aid in the prevention of EMI (Electromagnetic Impulse). This would certainly suggest that components are becoming more sensitive and require certain components to ensure it success.

I have two good friends that purchased a Gainward 5900U and a MSI 5900 non-ultra. The 5900U is run at default speeds while the 5900 non-ultra is running near or at 500/900. Both people do not have the problems that are being described. Both have Antec 500watt PSU's but only one has a UPS (Guy with the 5900 non-ultra).

So, I am not saying it is one or the other. I am saying however don't count out one or the other.

I hope the problem is resolved soon and would hope you all would get more specific than just popping in here and posting you have the problem and not leave system specs. This post was also to everyone and not just you ronterry, hope you will be able to find which things I talked about related to you.

Peace,

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Old 08-07-03, 10:20 AM   #69
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Default Another suggestion.

I can't find the thread at R3D, but I do recall a few people fixed the flickering problem by changing around their power leads. It seems some people get the flickering if the lead connected to the 4-prong on the card was also supplying power to a fan off the same lead. (Y'know how each lead has a couple of 2-4 4-prongs coming off the power supply? Make sure the lead connected to your viddy card ain't also connected to a fan. )
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Old 08-07-03, 10:57 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by Malfunction
I was just curious how many people that are having this problem don't have their system (PSU atleast) hooked up to a Uninterruptable Power Supply that has a built in Line conditioner.
For what it's worth, I produced the flickering problem on a system completely isolated from any outside connectivity. I unplugged the UPS from the wall and ran completely from battery.

It still flickered.

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Old 08-07-03, 12:21 PM   #71
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Just FYI: EMI = Electromagnetic Interference
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Old 08-07-03, 12:31 PM   #72
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Default Some issues might not be inside the computer

Hello All,

I don't have a 59xx Graphics card but I did experience similar problems with a visiontek Geforce 3 card that I owned. Basically I would get rolling line and flickering all the time. I swaped out cards for a different geforce card and the flickering went away. This lead me to believe that the card was bad. Then after a little while of using the new card I was starting to have the same issues.

I searched for the villian and found that a little clip side fan that I used to blow on my face was the culprit. If you moved the fan away from the computer the picture would clear up. I am not saying that noise is the only cause for these problems but it happens.

Another instance was in my dorm room if my computer was against a certain wall it was terrible... flickering like crazy, yet when I moved it to a diff window everything was fine.

So a suggestion to everybody having issues with this. Try different power outlet and different positions in your room or even a different room. And move anything that conducts electricty away from your monitor/computer (this includes computer speakers). Just test it with as little interference as you can to see whether you are just a victim of bad noise.

Edit* - just for the record I now own a Radeon 9800 Pro and have not experieced any flickering, but then again I will not be in my dorm room until the end of August.

Just my 2 cents,
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Old 08-07-03, 01:33 PM   #73
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FWIW, I've a 9800P that exhibited some of the flickering/rolling lines problems mentioned by some.

I'm running a dual-head setup, with the display spanned across one HP 17" and one NEC 19" monitor... I had flickering probs when running both displays only.

After some experimentation, I found that setting the refresh rate at 85 hz for both monitors was the best solution. I still have a slow rolling line on my 19" monitor, however, it's barely perceptable (depends upon application, background color, etc) in fact I only see it at all when using my web browser.

If it really tweaks me, I could always either turn off the left display, or separate the monitors (a little more space between them also solves the issue) but quite honestly it is solved well enough for me as it is. I really have to look hard to even see it at all.

Anyway, I know there are many variables that could cause the same symptoms, but in my situation the advice offered by many here certainly was accurate. Looking for sources of emi around the monitor itself (in my case, another monitor, might be different for others) might prove to be worthwhile if you're having probs. Thanks to all here who contributed, I'm grateful for the advice
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Old 08-07-03, 04:24 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by rmonster
FWIW, I've a 9800P that exhibited some of the flickering/rolling lines problems mentioned by some.

I'm running a dual-head setup, with the display spanned across one HP 17" and one NEC 19" monitor... I had flickering probs when running both displays only.
Your flickering is different. It is caused by one of the monitors interfering the other. The problem discussed here concerning the FX5900 seems to be caused by interference / filtering problems in the FX5900 board itself.

How do I know? Because (at least some of ) the peeps here that have the problem are not amateurs. There has been attempts to use the cards in different machines, with different monitors, with UPS-systems and in different geographical locations. If the problem would come from interference with e.g. certain monitors, these means should always solve the problem, but that isn't the case. With some of the cards the problem persists. Luckily it's not all the FX5900:s.
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Old 08-07-03, 05:22 PM   #75
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I should really hope the Leadtek has no flickering as it is bloody fully encased in metal! Anyone have a Leadtek 5900 that flickers?
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