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Old 05-22-11, 02:22 PM   #13
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Default Re: Liano/Zambezi CPUs price leaked!

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Originally Posted by slaWter View Post
"Should" is the keyword. AMD's top of the line product, especially with those specs, should be way faster than a normal SNB.

But first that slide on which it's just put up against a normal SNB and now this way too low pricing. I'm not sure if those are good signs. AMD can't play the integrated GPU card with Bulldozer.
If you were expecting something that'd topple your 980x from AMD then you had your expectations set to high.

Me, I'm just glad they have an architecture that's apparently clock-for-clock competitive with Intel. This gives them leg room to grow and improve.
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Old 05-22-11, 02:32 PM   #14
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Default Re: Liano/Zambezi CPUs price leaked!

pretty disappointing if it is going to be equal to or slower than sandy bridge.
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Old 05-22-11, 03:12 PM   #15
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Default Re: Liano/Zambezi CPUs price leaked!

http://news.mydrivers.com/1/194/194271.htm
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Old 05-22-11, 05:11 PM   #16
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Nah, something being more expensive doesn't always equate to it being better... that's just a stupid assumption we tend to make (although this depends on a given individual's opinion) and something keeps us (sometimes, not always) from having some interesting products in favor of the 'usual' products (more expensive and with more 'reputation').

So would you feel more comfortable if that CPU costed $550? That's just nonsense... this is not a I-throw-myself-out-for-a-couple-of-dollars appreciation scale but come on... $300 for the (supposed) top-of-the-line AMD offering is awesome (and I even think it's a bit more expensive than their last CPU line was, which makes me even more assured my purchase of an i5 2500 will be even more 'justified' haha).

Last time they had a better performing product they priced it to match. Hence why the FX chips carried a $1k pricetag. Companies don't sell products as cheap as they can unless the performance isn't there.
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Old 05-22-11, 08:20 PM   #17
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Default Re: Liano/Zambezi CPUs price leaked!

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I expected the 8 Cores to be priced against Intel's 6 Cores (not Extreme Editions). This doesn't mean that the FX performance will be underwhelming but it sure seems a bit strange.
You don't understand AMDs design then. Its more akin to a 4 core with hyperthreading than a 8 core. Hence why it is priced at the same as the i2600, I would expect it to beat the i2600 at most things though. Originally they were not even going to call them "8 cores" they were going to call them 4 modules. I suppose the marketing of saying "zomg 8 cores, thats more than 6!" won out over the logical naming scheme.

Make no mistake, these are meant to compete with the current sandy bridges. I don't know that they really intend to compete with future 6 core sandy bridges at all, they have 16 core (8 module) server products for server markets and the 6 core high end market is so tiny and 6 core does almost nothing for the average consumer over 4 cores anyway, I think they won't even bother, that is their marketing currently, with nothing to compete with intels highest end, why change?
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Old 05-22-11, 08:40 PM   #18
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Default Re: Liano/Zambezi CPUs price leaked!

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You don't understand AMDs design then. Its more akin to a 4 core with hyperthreading than a 8 core. Hence why it is priced at the same as the i2600, I would expect it to beat the i2600 at most things though. Originally they were not even going to call them "8 cores" they were going to call them 4 modules. I suppose the marketing of saying "zomg 8 cores, thats more than 6!" won out over the logical naming scheme.

Make no mistake, these are meant to compete with the current sandy bridges. I don't know that they really intend to compete with future 6 core sandy bridges at all, they have 16 core (8 module) server products for server markets and the 6 core high end market is so tiny and 6 core does almost nothing for the average consumer over 4 cores anyway, I think they won't even bother, that is their marketing currently, with nothing to compete with intels highest end, why change?
I'm not sure if you understand AMDs design. It's nothing like 4 cores with HT, it's just 8 integer cores in lots of two sharing a single FP unit (a beefy one that's even more capable than SB's). That's an 8 core processor, it's recognized by every OS out there as having 8 cores. You don't call every processor before the Pentium Pro a half core, do you?

For clarification AMD never stated they were going to call this a "4 module" processor, that was just speculation by the public.

WRT these prices, I wouldn't take anything to the bank just yet. They're on par with SB, which is a good sign, but doesn't mean they might not still be faster. I think there's no question that they will be faster at most properly threaded tasks. Games, they will probably be on par for now. That's just my guess anyhow.

As for server, I would think that is far less of a concern. Everything on servers is massively threaded and with 16 real cores, I think AMD should be pretty comfortable in the server realm... especially with their competitive pricing and low power use (if following on the trend from Magnycours).
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Old 05-23-11, 04:20 AM   #19
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Default Re: Liano/Zambezi CPUs price leaked!

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That's an 8 core processor, it's recognized by every OS out there as having 8 cores.
So are 4 core sandy bridges, so I guess they are 8 cores too right? They are not 8 full cores. They are 4 cores, with parts of another core in there for a second thread via hyperthreading. At best you might call them 1.5 cores.
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Old 05-23-11, 05:18 AM   #20
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Default Re: Liano/Zambezi CPUs price leaked!

Well, remember the Radeon HD 4870? AMD priced it way lower than what competing products from Nvidia was and caused Nvidia to lower their prices.
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Old 05-23-11, 08:15 AM   #21
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Default Re: Liano/Zambezi CPUs price leaked!

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So are 4 core sandy bridges, so I guess they are 8 cores too right? They are not 8 full cores. They are 4 cores, with parts of another core in there for a second thread via hyperthreading. At best you might call them 1.5 cores.
Really? "parts of another core"? It's a complete integer core, nothing to do with hyperthreading.

Hyperthreading aims to constantly saturate the schedulers, making sure they are always active and thus ready to feed the pipeline. That's it, there's no more magic going on or extra "parts" of a core.

Bulldozer is two integer cores. In the same way as HT, AMD plan to keep the schedulers busy by lowering the ratio of schedulers per cores (3 for 2int and 1fp vs. 2 for 1int and 1fp in K7-10). This sounds stupid and that it would decrease performance, but a) the schedulers aren't the same as K10 ones, and b) the aim is efficiency, both in power, decreasing pipeline stalls and obtaining higher clocks. We'll just have to wait and see how it pans out. My guess is that it will give better performance in some applications, and worse in others.

The way I see it, this is 2011. No one should be buying single cores for a desktop PC or laptop anymore. It makes sense to design an efficient dual core with shared resources, reduced power and die size as the very lowest end chip you can produce. This is what Bulldozer is and it makes sense to me. How it actually performs will be the telling factor though.
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Old 05-23-11, 10:39 AM   #22
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Default Re: Liano/Zambezi CPUs price leaked!

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(a beefy one that's even more capable than SB's).
Yeah? Proof?
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Old 05-23-11, 10:43 AM   #23
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Default Re: Liano/Zambezi CPUs price leaked!

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Really? "parts of another core"? It's a complete integer core, nothing to do with hyperthreading.

Hyperthreading aims to constantly saturate the schedulers, making sure they are always active and thus ready to feed the pipeline. That's it, there's no more magic going on or extra "parts" of a core.

Bulldozer is two integer cores. In the same way as HT, AMD plan to keep the schedulers busy by lowering the ratio of schedulers per cores (3 for 2int and 1fp vs. 2 for 1int and 1fp in K7-10). This sounds stupid and that it would decrease performance, but a) the schedulers aren't the same as K10 ones, and b) the aim is efficiency, both in power, decreasing pipeline stalls and obtaining higher clocks. We'll just have to wait and see how it pans out. My guess is that it will give better performance in some applications, and worse in others.

The way I see it, this is 2011. No one should be buying single cores for a desktop PC or laptop anymore. It makes sense to design an efficient dual core with shared resources, reduced power and die size as the very lowest end chip you can produce. This is what Bulldozer is and it makes sense to me. How it actually performs will be the telling factor though.
The more I read your posts, the more I want to head over to AMDZone and start picking their brains about AMD's design of Bulldozer.
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Old 05-23-11, 06:01 PM   #24
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Default Re: Liano/Zambezi CPUs price leaked!

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Originally Posted by Viral View Post
Really? "parts of another core"? It's a complete integer core, nothing to do with hyperthreading.

Hyperthreading aims to constantly saturate the schedulers, making sure they are always active and thus ready to feed the pipeline. That's it, there's no more magic going on or extra "parts" of a core.

Bulldozer is two integer cores. In the same way as HT, AMD plan to keep the schedulers busy by lowering the ratio of schedulers per cores (3 for 2int and 1fp vs. 2 for 1int and 1fp in K7-10). This sounds stupid and that it would decrease performance, but a) the schedulers aren't the same as K10 ones, and b) the aim is efficiency, both in power, decreasing pipeline stalls and obtaining higher clocks. We'll just have to wait and see how it pans out. My guess is that it will give better performance in some applications, and worse in others.

The way I see it, this is 2011. No one should be buying single cores for a desktop PC or laptop anymore. It makes sense to design an efficient dual core with shared resources, reduced power and die size as the very lowest end chip you can produce. This is what Bulldozer is and it makes sense to me. How it actually performs will be the telling factor though.
There are two integer cores, but they share a single front end and back end. That makes them one core IMO. I like AMDs idea better than Intels, but it remains to be seen how much better or worse it will do in the real world.
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