Go Back   nV News Forums > Linux Support Forums > NVIDIA Linux

Newegg Daily Deals

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-28-11, 01:39 PM   #1
FlanMaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4
Default Permission For opensource optimus support?

Will NVidia allow open source developers to try to work on some type of workaround or support for optimus systems?

Optimus is NOT TRUE dedicated graphics and should not legally be allowed to be advertised as such. we're out a grand because we trusted Nvidia's past reputation without checking to see how they were messing around with things.

My thoughts are that at the very least there should be easy development of drivers that would use the integrated gpu as simply a pass through bus that allows otherwise direct access to the nvidia gpu. So why not give open source developers the means if you're going to refuse to do it yourself without expecting x developers to make microsoft like apis. I don't understand why a simple communications function can't be written into the driver to allow easy passage through the igp into the nvidia gpu and back. This would seem to be the most logical solution if Nvidia is going to push this technology while misrepresenting it as dedicated when it's not.

The only other option, according to an attorney friend, we consumers have is to open a class action law suit against NVidia for false advertisement, which I don't really care to get into. I'm sure nvidia lawyers would claim that all the fine print excuses them but there is nothing listed in most advertisements that I have downloaded about the optimus technology NOT being true dedicated gpu technology. I only found out after checking for solutions when the nvidia linux driver refused to function properly.

Here's my personal problemproblem. My wife bought a laptop based on my recommendations of Nvidia's past record of excellence for supporting linux. I wanted a TRULY dedicated gpu. In times past this was only guaranteed by buying a system with an nvidia dedicated gpu. We get the unit only to find it has "optimus", and of course, since we bought it online we could not return it without a $200.00 penalty (sucks to buy a birthday gift online I guess). (asus n53s series with geforce gt540m gpu which was advertised as dedicated but has the intel integrated gpu blocking direct access to the nvidia gpu).

So, now I'm stuck having to use windows for things that require the nvidia gpu since the dual gpu garbage was not clearly posted and disclaimed. I'm sure this is not unique to me but someone at nvidia could surely lobby the open source community for an easy, inexpensive fix, if they are afraid to provide one themselves.
FlanMaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-11, 07:00 PM   #2
MikeC
Administrator
 
MikeC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1997
Location: Virginia
Posts: 5,991
Talking Re: Permission For opensource optimus support?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlanMaster View Post
Here's my personal problemproblem. My wife bought a laptop based on my recommendations
LOL. And now you're whining.
MikeC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-11, 09:55 PM   #3
FlanMaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4
Default Re: Permission For opensource optimus support?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeC View Post
LOL. And now you're whining.
No, now I am asking if Nvidia will open it to the open source community Period.

Most folks would ask "why" I am interested in that so I circumvented that right off the bat and now you're crying about whining instead of answering the question, and without even having read the entire post evidently. If you don't have the knowledge or authority to answer the question then why not let someone else who can instead of misconstruing my post by quoting only partial quotes. And quit trying to blame shift when the problem is NVIDIA has advertised this as dedicated technology when it's not.

This graphics unit is advertised as a "dedicated" graphics card" and it's not. Optimus is not dedicated gpu technology. That's the reason so many people are getting frustrated.

So now, Will Nvidia open it to opensource or is this not an nvidia forum?
FlanMaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-11, 11:24 PM   #4
Deanjo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 301
Default Re: Permission For opensource optimus support?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlanMaster View Post
Optimus is NOT TRUE dedicated graphics and should not legally be allowed to be advertised as such.
It is true dedicated graphics by every sense. It is not there for any other primary function. It is not a sound DSP, it is not a storage controller, it is not a wifi controller, etc....

Quote:
The only other option, according to an attorney friend,
I sure hope you don't use him as an attorney seeing that he would agree with what you thing the word dedicated means.
Deanjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-11, 10:59 AM   #5
FlanMaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4
Default Re: Permission For opensource optimus support?

Logically speaking, most IGP units can be considered "dedicated" but they are not.

Industry standards, the technical specifications typically, dictate the definitions outside of the common english dictionary. An Integrated graphics card is not there for sound controller, storage controller, wifi controller either, but it's not dedicated.

The work I've done designing GUI for process automation systems over the years has since changed to third party solutions for the hardware but still generally consider dedicated to have it's own pathway for the information to reach it, without having to go through another unit. They also have their own memory and never borrow system memory. In this industry we have used proprietary, vax/vms, unix, and pc hardware over the years but the graphics processing standards have remained pretty much consistent as within the growth of the technology.

None of the businesses I've helped set up systems for would buy a mother board with a graphics card that is dependent on another gpu to obtain its information, for ANY graphics intensive solution. What little I've been able to dig up on "optimus" technology all point to all graphics data/traffic having to go THROUGH the intel igpu, making the geforce chip nothing more than an extension, or part of the igpu. Without the complete removal of the dependency of the igpu for any form of processing data, the card is not TECHNICALLY a dedicated gpu.

There may be arguments logically, but standard wise, it's a severe deviation from dedicated gpu technology.

Again, it would seem to me to be relatively easy to integrate a function or small set of functions that would permit the igpu to be used for simple through put, since it's already required as such via hardware design. This should be neither labor intensive nor costly. But if Nvidia feels it would be, then they could turn to the open source community for assistance or even full development.
FlanMaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-11, 11:58 AM   #6
P.Kosunen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 57
Default Re: Permission For opensource optimus support?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlanMaster View Post
Will NVidia allow open source developers to try to work on some type of workaround or support for optimus systems?
How can they stop them?

https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee
P.Kosunen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-11, 12:02 PM   #7
FlanMaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4
Default Re: Permission For opensource optimus support?

Quote:
Originally Posted by P.Kosunen View Post
How can they stop them?
I thank you greatly for the link. I did not come across this during any of my searches. Now all I have to do is compile it on my system, make sure it works and then I can switch my default boot up back to linux
FlanMaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-11, 08:57 AM   #8
Gusar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 277
Default Re: Permission For opensource optimus support?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlanMaster View Post
Optimus is NOT TRUE dedicated graphics and should not legally be allowed to be advertised as such.
You get the full power of a dedicated graphic chip in your machine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlanMaster View Post
we're out a grand because we trusted Nvidia's past reputation without checking to see how they were messing around with things.
That's really your problem, not nvidia's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlanMaster View Post
I don't understand why a simple communications function can't be written into the driver to allow easy passage through the igp into the nvidia gpu and back.
The nvidia driver is closed. The intel driver is open.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlanMaster View Post
The only other option, according to an attorney friend, we consumers have is to open a class action law suit against NVidia for false advertisement
Nvidia never advertised Optimus support in Linux.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlanMaster View Post
(asus n53s series with geforce gt540m gpu which was advertised as dedicated but has the intel integrated gpu blocking direct access to the nvidia gpu).
Complain to Asus then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlanMaster View Post
I'm sure this is not unique to me but someone at nvidia could surely lobby the open source community for an easy, inexpensive fix, if they are afraid to provide one themselves.
I don't get what you're trying to say here. What does nvidia have to do with the open source community? They provide a closed driver. That is all. What the open source community does is none of their concern.
I also don't get what nvidia is supposedly "afraid" of. If supporting Optimus was "easy" and "inexpensive" it would've been done already.
Gusar is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 05-30-11, 11:49 AM   #9
Deanjo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 301
Default Re: Permission For opensource optimus support?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlanMaster View Post
Logically speaking, most IGP units can be considered "dedicated" but they are not.

Industry standards, the technical specifications typically, dictate the definitions outside of the common english dictionary. An Integrated graphics card is not there for sound controller, storage controller, wifi controller either, but it's not dedicated.

The work I've done designing GUI for process automation systems over the years has since changed to third party solutions for the hardware but still generally consider dedicated to have it's own pathway for the information to reach it, without having to go through another unit. They also have their own memory and never borrow system memory. In this industry we have used proprietary, vax/vms, unix, and pc hardware over the years but the graphics processing standards have remained pretty much consistent as within the growth of the technology.


None of the businesses I've helped set up systems for would buy a mother board with a graphics card that is dependent on another gpu to obtain its information, for ANY graphics intensive solution. What little I've been able to dig up on "optimus" technology all point to all graphics data/traffic having to go THROUGH the intel igpu, making the geforce chip nothing more than an extension, or part of the igpu. Without the complete removal of the dependency of the igpu for any form of processing data, the card is not TECHNICALLY a dedicated gpu.

There may be arguments logically, but standard wise, it's a severe deviation from dedicated gpu technology.

Again, it would seem to me to be relatively easy to integrate a function or small set of functions that would permit the igpu to be used for simple through put, since it's already required as such via hardware design. This should be neither labor intensive nor costly. But if Nvidia feels it would be, then they could turn to the open source community for assistance or even full development.
The term "dedicated" refers to the fact that dedicated graphics cards have RAM that is dedicated to the card's use. Nothing more and that is the industry definition.
Deanjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-11, 11:31 PM   #10
d4rk74m4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 72
Default Re: Permission For opensource optimus support?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlanMaster View Post
Will NVidia allow open source developers to try to work on some type of workaround or support for optimus systems?

Optimus is NOT TRUE dedicated graphics and should not legally be allowed to be advertised as such. we're out a grand because we trusted Nvidia's past reputation without checking to see how they were messing around with things.
Actually.. You're wrong. The GPUs in "Optimus" laptops are identical in every way to their non-Optimus counterparts. This is as I can tell anyway (hint: I'm one of the open-source driver developers for NVIDIA GPUs).

The only difference is that your laptop manufacturer (yes, them, not NVIDIA) chose not to wire up the display to it. Had your manufacturer been nice (like Lenovo for instance, I have an Optimus T510), they'd have included a mux to switch the display connectors between the integrated and discrete chipsets.
d4rk74m4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1998 - 2014, nV News.