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Old 09-10-02, 05:14 PM   #25
nin_fragile14
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Quote:
Originally posted by saturnotaku

How's the IQ and performance with FSAA and aniso? I know what the review sites say, now I want to hear it from someone who switched from NVIDIA.
I posted my impressions here
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Old 09-10-02, 08:35 PM   #26
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Blah, screw it. I'll prolly just go to BB to try it out as I'm morbidly curious now. I can just say, it wouldn't work in my motherboard and bring in the thread from Rage3D to back me up if I don't like it, heheh.

Quote:
Originally posted by ATI LoVeR 9700
BTW, I have a 2001 Saturn SL2(in addition to the 3 Bimmers, 87 325i is back, my 95 525i, and my 2002 M3 which I saved up for for 11 years), that I bought for 8,000 after it was in an accident. Can I put any performance parts on it? I mean, I DON'T WANT TO RICEBOY IT! I mean real performance, not Hochikacha toys. Know any sites that sell parts? I like that car, it's just a little, weak.

So can you help out Saturn? I'm in Illinois too, so local shops are fine if you know any.
So as not to take this thread off topic, I'll PM you shortly.

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Old 09-11-02, 12:38 AM   #27
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The only game I had problems with the geforce3 was Mercedes Benz truck racing and a patch made by the game developer solved the issue.

Other than that I don't recall any other bug with the geforce3
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Old 09-11-02, 01:35 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by mcortz_2000
Thats it Saturnotaku,

Let us enjoy our wonderfully stable and fast Ti4600's and continue to do so until NV30 is released....
Amen. I am quite happy currently, and have been since the return to NV.


Quote:
Originally posted by netviper13
I'd hardly say the GF3 was buggy when it came out...a little slower than the GF2 Ultra for a little while, but everything worked out of the box.
Actually, you guys who keep saying that it was slower than an ultra were most definitely not running 1280x1024+, because I was the only one in my house to have the thing, and it SMASHED the GTS, Radeon 64DDR, and Ultra that my three room-mates were running with. We all had similar machines, other than the graphics hardware.

This isn't a knock, but, in addition, the only card in the house that gave anyone fits was the Radeon, due to terrible Win2K drivers.

We lived in a 4,200 square foot house and we wired the place so there were Cat6 jacks in each room for our gaming pleasure, so I had plenty of comparisons.
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Old 09-11-02, 01:44 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by d1rX
ATI could have waited 2 more months they could really iron those bugs out dont you think? My 0.02
They had to get the drop on NV somehow.
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Old 09-11-02, 05:49 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by ATI LoVeR 9700
The 8500, when I first bought it gave me no bugs. I was fine. That High-Poly bug didn't affect me. It was all good.

heh, you are the only person I've ever heard of that had no problems with the 8500. It has to be the most bug filled launch in the history of video cards. Well so far anyway. Looks like the 9700 will give it a run.

The 8500's problem was drivers. The 9700 seems to be having more problems with power comsumption. It is a total power hog.
It's funny that people at Rage 3d slammed the Voodoo5 for having a power connector on the end of the card, yet these same people are praising the 9700 for having it. "Look how much power my card needs!!!"

I think nvidia has made a good decision going to .13 when they did. Someone there must have realized that this big of a GPU would not work well on .15. I'll bet their card will use far less power, give off far less heat and have far fewer problems because of power consumption as a result.

The driver problems remain to be seen, but I know which company I trust to get drivers working properly ASAP.

The one who has actually done it before.
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Old 09-11-02, 01:13 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moose
It's funny that people at Rage 3d slammed the Voodoo5 for having a power connector on the end of the card, yet these same people are praising the 9700 for having it.
Hehe your probably right there however the reason could be simply that the Voodoo5 was underpowered and when needing external power to still be underpowered, it comes off as a joke.

Did it have great FSAA? Sure...could you jack the rez and use said FSAA..sadly no.

However with the serious power that the 9700 brings, one really cant find a reason to fault the extra juice it needs.
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Old 09-12-02, 08:03 AM   #32
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Personally I'm surprised at how well the R9700 launch went.. of course people are posting at rage3d about their problems, but where else are they gonna post? They gonna e-mail ATi?(which is a joke.. no real person ever reads their support e-mail) ..

I know i've been visiting forums for video cards since I had my Voodoo3 .. and well every card I've seen has had problems at launch.. The ones that REALLY stick out as the problematic cards were the GF1 and Radeon8500 ... otherwise you get the occasional: 'MY SYSTEM LOCKS UP!' or: 'MY SYSTEM WONT START' or my favorite: 'MY 3DMARK SCORE IS TOO LOW' ...

find any 3rd party nvidia card manufactuar's forums and you will see people having the same problems they have with R9700 .. most of them..

the AGP8X problem and people needing a new BIOS? Big deal.. I know Xabre wont even work in AGP4x .. and a bios update? what motherboard doesnt have bios updates? video cards/comptuers all together arent as simple as they use to be..

I honestly think the R9700 launch was great .. some problems but they can be expected ..

people who own GF4s shouldnt even think about buying the R9700 though.. R9700 is ALOT faster.. but FFS your GF4 isnt fast enough? im sorry.. but anyone who even considers it is insane

and about drivers.. ati drivers are ALOT better, i could even say they are 'good' now.. but they deffinately arent perfect .. and only judging by the lack of complaints from GF4 owners I can say they arent as good as nvidia's drivers.. but they are functional and work right in MOST games without any hassle.. still though, if a new game comes out and it isnt coded by john carmack, i can say from the start my radeon will have SOME problem with it for a couple of days (if its a popular game) or a couple of months (if its a not so popular game)
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Old 09-12-02, 08:12 AM   #33
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Default GFORCE 4 TI 4600

I recently acquired the Creative GeForce4 Ti4600 having replaced my previous MSI GeForce4 Ti4400. I managed to overclock the card at 307 core speed/704 memory speed and it rocks. That, plus the recent price drop (GF4 Ti4600 = 340 Euros/ Radeon 9700 Pro 540 Euros) made me realize that no matter what frame rate the 9700 Pro generates it doesn't match the Ti4600.

The NV30 will be a great chip but I hope NVIDIA doesn't make the same mistake as ATI and introduce a sale price of 500+ Euros.

Edit: Don't type in all caps, it's bad forum ettiquite.

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Old 09-12-02, 01:01 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by ErrorS
Personally I'm surprised at how well the R9700 launch went.. of course people are posting at rage3d about their problems, but where else are they gonna post? They gonna e-mail ATi?(which is a joke.. no real person ever reads their support e-mail) ..

I know i've been visiting forums for video cards since I had my Voodoo3 .. and well every card I've seen has had problems at launch.. The ones that REALLY stick out as the problematic cards were the GF1 and Radeon8500 ... otherwise you get the occasional: 'MY SYSTEM LOCKS UP!' or: 'MY SYSTEM WONT START' or my favorite: 'MY 3DMARK SCORE IS TOO LOW' ...

find any 3rd party nvidia card manufactuar's forums and you will see people having the same problems they have with R9700 .. most of them..

the AGP8X problem and people needing a new BIOS? Big deal.. I know Xabre wont even work in AGP4x .. and a bios update? what motherboard doesnt have bios updates? video cards/comptuers all together arent as simple as they use to be..

I honestly think the R9700 launch was great .. some problems but they can be expected ..

people who own GF4s shouldnt even think about buying the R9700 though.. R9700 is ALOT faster.. but FFS your GF4 isnt fast enough? im sorry.. but anyone who even considers it is insane

and about drivers.. ati drivers are ALOT better, i could even say they are 'good' now.. but they deffinately arent perfect .. and only judging by the lack of complaints from GF4 owners I can say they arent as good as nvidia's drivers.. but they are functional and work right in MOST games without any hassle.. still though, if a new game comes out and it isnt coded by john carmack, i can say from the start my radeon will have SOME problem with it for a couple of days (if its a popular game) or a couple of months (if its a not so popular game)
Hi there ErrorS,

I hate to say this but I must. As much as I would like to agree with what u say u have made some comments that I believe are incorrect.

1. Ati support technicians or the likes have been present on Rage3D for example... helping people out with their problems. The response has been really positive from the Rage3D members and from many other people as well so in a way they have upped the level of support which is a welcome sign.

2.The Geforce 1 had nothing in the amount of problems that the Ati8500 had and this is from personal experience and from many others.

3.The AGP 8x deal is more serious than u think. The problem seems to stem from clocked frequencies being too high and not being stable as well. The bios for the Ati9700 apparently downs the operating frequencies to bring stability. I realize that there have been power issues but this is not just a simple bios fix, it is a problem in the sense that people paying $350 for a video card should be able to have the card working at the advertised clock speeds etc...

4.The Ati is for people that want to be able to run games with 4x AA and 16x anis(more or less) and to be able to have playable frames even at high resolutions 1024 and above. In these cases the 9700 is significantly faster, and by and large margin.

5.The drivers on the other hand have improved a lot but are still nowhere near where they should be. This is with the released driver and the beta driver.

Please understand this is not a flame just a correction that many people can attest to.

(excuse any bad spelling if there is)

This info has been publically made known by many Ati9700 owners and the likes. I am open to peoples opinions but sometimes the facts are too hard to ignore.

This just my $0.02.
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Old 09-12-02, 01:23 PM   #35
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Here's my take on it all. I buy a card, I want it to work. I dont wanna wait for any updates, I dont wanna have to change my motherboard, and I certainly dont wanna clock down or disable features. It should be as simple as insert card into slot, boot pc, install software... THATS IT!

I was a R8500 owner, and I really just wasnt happy. Some games crashed, others were choppy. So I took a chance and got a GF4 TI4400 instead, and I even installed the software from the CD the first time... and everything worked! The games didnt crash, frame rates were smooth, and all the features worked great too.

I'm not gonna argue about the better IQ or picture quality or any of that nonsense ... I'm just gonna say this: One card worked from day 1, the other gave me migranes even after multiple driver updates and tweaks.

In ATI's defense, I think the Radeon 64ddr VIVO was a better card than the R8500. It DID work out of the box, it DID seem smooth. I'm not sure where ATI went wrong after that, but I think the R8500 was a big pain in the neck and I'm happy I sold it . My Radeon 64ddr VIVO on the other hand, great card, I'll likely keep it indefinetly
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Old 09-12-02, 01:46 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by mcortz_2000


Hi there ErrorS,

I hate to say this but I must. As much as I would like to agree with what u say u have made some comments that I believe are incorrect.

1. Ati support technicians or the likes have been present on Rage3D for example... helping people out with their problems. The response has been really positive from the Rage3D members and from many other people as well so in a way they have upped the level of support which is a welcome sign.

2.The Geforce 1 had nothing in the amount of problems that the Ati8500 had and this is from personal experience and from many others.

3.The AGP 8x deal is more serious than u think. The problem seems to stem from clocked frequencies being too high and not being stable as well. The bios for the Ati9700 apparently downs the operating frequencies to bring stability. I realize that there have been power issues but this is not just a simple bios fix, it is a problem in the sense that people paying $350 for a video card should be able to have the card working at the advertised clock speeds etc...

4.The Ati is for people that want to be able to run games with 4x AA and 16x anis(more or less) and to be able to have playable frames even at high resolutions 1024 and above. In these cases the 9700 is significantly faster, and by and large margin.

5.The drivers on the other hand have improved a lot but are still nowhere near where they should be. This is with the released driver and the beta driver.

Please understand this is not a flame just a correction that many people can attest to.

(excuse any bad spelling if there is)

This info has been publically made known by many Ati9700 owners and the likes. I am also not against Ati nor am I an NVLOVER or NVIDIOT. I am open to peoples opinions but sometimes the facts are too hard to ignore.

This just my $0.02.
well I just recently bought a Radeon8500 so I dunno how the problems were 1st hand (i did follow rage3d message boards extremely closely though) .. but I did buy a GF1 SDR like 3 days after release.. it looked like crap in all games and ran like crap in most games... I can say for a fact GF1 was an unstable POS .. sure the card was fast, but was nothing in term of that feeling of "completeness" my Voodoo3 had.. cant explain that feeling or back it up with any kind of hard proof.. games just felt better on my V3 (except for halflife)

now about the tech support.. ok, this is Radeon9700 .. their brand new card.. I'm a radeon1 owner, I have e-mailed ATi for support numerous times with no responce.. same with my new Radeon8500, no support.. Driver fixes? all for Radeon9000 and Radeon9700 .. this might seem fine, but what happens when ATi releases R350? You might lose that hardcore support you're getting for your radeon9700 now.. the ONLY support people are getting are 2-3 individuals who worked on the Radeon9700 using their own time to help people out.. it doesn't mean ATi has good support..

and sorry for mentioning the AGP8X issue when in all reality i knew nothing about it .. I thought I saw somewhere a new BIOS would fix it.. guess I was wrong?

and please cut that disclaimer about you being neither an nvidiot or fanatic .. and the "I'm not flaming you or being rude!" I've seen the light and it's somewhere in between ATi and nVidia .. screw being a fanboy

and to reply to Gator..

I agree with you about the Radeon1 being a great card.. I bought a Radeon8500.. it was nice but didnt have that same feeling my Radeon64MB VIVO did.. even physically the card felt less complete then my radeon1 ..

1. The 2d IQ was worse then my Radeon1
2. Quake3/3dmark(Dragon test) skies and other games that user smaller textures (causing any graphical quality problems to show up easier) just looked horrible..
3. FSAA was BLURY .. i hated R8500's FSAA

dont get me wrong.. Radeon8500 is overall alot better then my Radeon1 ... but still, it seems like each generation video card manufactuars cut some corners to make sure their card is noticebly faster..

ok .. apologies if i sounded retarded in this post.. i really need some sleep.. heh
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