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Old 09-12-02, 05:28 PM   #37
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Originally posted by ErrorS

well I just recently bought a Radeon8500 so I dunno how the problems were 1st hand (i did follow rage3d message boards extremely closely though) .. but I did buy a GF1 SDR like 3 days after release.. it looked like crap in all games and ran like crap in most games... I can say for a fact GF1 was an unstable POS .. sure the card was fast, but was nothing in term of that feeling of "completeness" my Voodoo3 had.. cant explain that feeling or back it up with any kind of hard proof.. games just felt better on my V3 (except for halflife)

now about the tech support.. ok, this is Radeon9700 .. their brand new card.. I'm a radeon1 owner, I have e-mailed ATi for support numerous times with no responce.. same with my new Radeon8500, no support.. Driver fixes? all for Radeon9000 and Radeon9700 .. this might seem fine, but what happens when ATi releases R350? You might lose that hardcore support you're getting for your radeon9700 now.. the ONLY support people are getting are 2-3 individuals who worked on the Radeon9700 using their own time to help people out.. it doesn't mean ATi has good support..

and sorry for mentioning the AGP8X issue when in all reality i knew nothing about it .. I thought I saw somewhere a new BIOS would fix it.. guess I was wrong?

and please cut that disclaimer about you being neither an nvidiot or fanatic .. and the "I'm not flaming you or being rude!" I've seen the light and it's somewhere in between ATi and nVidia .. screw being a fanboy

and to reply to Gator..

I agree with you about the Radeon1 being a great card.. I bought a Radeon8500.. it was nice but didnt have that same feeling my Radeon64MB VIVO did.. even physically the card felt less complete then my radeon1 ..

1. The 2d IQ was worse then my Radeon1
2. Quake3/3dmark(Dragon test) skies and other games that user smaller textures (causing any graphical quality problems to show up easier) just looked horrible..
3. FSAA was BLURY .. i hated R8500's FSAA

dont get me wrong.. Radeon8500 is overall alot better then my Radeon1 ... but still, it seems like each generation video card manufactuars cut some corners to make sure their card is noticebly faster..

ok .. apologies if i sounded retarded in this post.. i really need some sleep.. heh
The GF1 came in DDR and SDR version. The DDR was the Ram of choice because SDR ram was unable to give the gpu enough bandwidth to work with. A lot o fproblems are also due to certain peoples abilities to mess up a computer where they are over-confident with installation on a Hardware and Software level.
At the same time I once as well have had a Voodoo1, Voodoo2 and Voodoo3 and i do have fond memories but the Geforce1 brough AGP textures, sharper textures, 32Bit support and better fog in games. There were other graphical features new as well to the gaming community to adapt and once the extension were learn't the gaming arena has never looked sweeter.

I never mentioned anything about there quality in regards to the email support response time. This might well be the case still but their effort as of late is welcome.

No probs about the AGP8x issue, I tend to get abit technical sometimes so don't worry too much. Anyway I appreciate your reply and its interesting to hear your opinion on these matters.
Please feel free to point me out if I say something incorrect.

The disclaimer will be taken down as long as no flaming occurs. I enjoy talking to most people on these forums and I would like to keep it that way, makes things go far smoother.
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Old 09-12-02, 11:28 PM   #38
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There is a thread over at Rage 3d which is quite interesting, it appears as it would be that the card is quite power hungry (not suprising either 110 million tranisitors on a .15um with a 300+ mhz clock).

Now this problem esculates when in the one computer rig there are other serious power hogging components, CPU (Athlon!) Raid array Hard disks ect....

It was noted in this thread (cant be bothered posting url) that even with high wattage PSU there are still issues, it was raised that the +3volt and +5 volt railings could be a big problem.

Under full loads if the values of those railings falls to much, components arent provided with a constant stream of clean power hence maybe some of the lockups.

Not all issues are going to be associated with this, but if people have a real time monitor of there voltages in program then it could help to diagnose if this is a problem for some.

Hopefully the Nv30 wont require as much juice being on a .13um but being a 120+ million tranisitor part and high core clock rate may still cause some issues.

Just my thoughts sometimes its not always the drivers.
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Old 09-13-02, 11:31 AM   #39
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Default Hmmm

Ok, ATILover, I owned both Radeon 64 VIVO (still do in my secondary rig) and an Asus GF3 (V8200 Deluxe) and have to say that the GF3's IQ was every bit as good as the Radeon's EXCEPT one game where Nvidia screwed the pooch big time. Commanche vs. Hokum suffered terribly from the switch to GF3. Even today on my GF4 Ti4400, Nvidia hasn't done anything for the HORRIBLE dropped textures and flashing pixels. Now according to the support line for the game, they blamed Windows XP saying that the game wasn't meant to be played on that platform. That's complete BS as I have both a Radeon 64 VIVO and a GF2MX400 in other rigs running WinXP that run the game just fine.

But that was they ONLY game that suffered any form of problem at all. Everything else I have played on my GF3 was faster, cleaner IQ and generally LESS buggy then my Radeon could manage. I bought my GF3 less then a month after it became available through Monarch Computers and still love the card completely. Admittedly my GF4 blows it away, and supposedly the 9700 blows that away, but I'll stick with what I've got till NV30. To this day, I've never had an out of the box problem with Nvidia cards (except the one game that hates newer NV cards).

My job is building, repairing and upgrading PCs all day long and have to say that from a larger scale perspective, that Nvidia's newer cards are generally more stable in a production enviorment overall. ATI makes some killer products (original Radeon, 8500, 9700), and I usually take the underdog's side, but not this time. Experience has shown where to spend my duckies.
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Old 09-13-02, 07:54 PM   #40
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Do you guys actually think that the R9700 release is going well????

I don't.

Since the release Rage3d had literally exploded with problem reports and not just with drivers.

It also now seems that all the first batch of R9700's have a defective bios and will have to be RMA'd back to ATI for replacement since they can not be flashed.

This is terrible!!! Not only are customers going to be very upset by this but it is going to cost ATI an arm and a leg to replace all these boards. (Shipping paperwork etc...)

That cost is nothing compared to the cost they will pay in reputation.

Sorry guys, but ATI had a GOLDEN chance to really stick it to nvidia this time around and shake their reputation of having "bad drivers"and they totally blew it IMO.
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Old 09-14-02, 06:04 PM   #41
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Well, I splurged and replaced my GF3 with the 9700. I absolutely love this card. It works perfectly in every game I play. The only real problem (more of an annoyance) I have noticed is that in AvP2 MP, when I press the TAB key to see the scores everything slows down to a crawl (80 to 10 FPS with 1024x768 4xAA and 16x aniso details maxed), which didn't happen with the GF3. Fortunately, I don't play the game while continually pressing the TAB key .
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Old 09-15-02, 02:37 AM   #42
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well since everyone is spouting off their opinions right and left then here's mine.

I am an avid reader of rage3d and I hear almost as many good things as bad things about the 9700. And this is a card that is nary a month old. But one has to remember that the the people posting with problems are a tiny piece of the consumer pie. So, I believe that most people that are buying 9700s are simply enjoying their card and don't have any problems to post about. This is speculation but at least it's a touch deductive.

Also, I've owned about 5 nvidia cards in my life and one ati. Here are the nv cards: tnt2, G2GTS, G2mx400, G4Ti4200, and G4Ti4400. Both of the g4s had problems with a few games, namely dungeon siege and nascar2002. The others were basically trouble free. But I have never ever liked the nv control panel, and rivatuner was just a pain in the butt.

The one ati card I purchased was an LE850064mb that I've had in my system for over a year. I bought the card the first month it came out and never really had any problems with it. So, I really do like ati and their hardware, and now their software is becoming better and better with performance increases from driver to driver. I'm still running this card today and have since sold all the nv cards I owned . Plus the 8500 was only $180 a year ago and I've recouped my money from all the other cards by selling on ebay.

My point is this: that one should really try out a card in his system before he makes the decision to buy or not to buy. It's the only objective way to pick out the card that best suites your proclivities.

sorry for the longwind post

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