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Old 01-02-12, 11:50 AM   #157
shadow001
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Default Re: Official Radeon 7970 Review and discussion thread

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Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
For you and I it's sort of a moot point anyway. It's not a big upgrade to what we already have, a modest OC gets us half the performance difference of these cards at stock speed. (not to mention we get AO and PhysX, and NVIDIA's superior multi GPU drivers)

For us to get two 7970s would be more of a side grade, basically more of the same with the added inconvenience of waiting for hot fixes on Catalyst drivers.

Ignoring the fact that sapphire will offer cards clocked up to 1335Mhz on the core( water cooled), and even VR-zone took a stock HD7970 from their review, updated it to the latest BIOS from AMD, and got it to hit 1260Mhz....Stock clocks are 925Mhz, so a 300+ Mhz increase on clocks is a decent jump in performance.

http://vr-zone.com/articles/amd-rade...ir/14398.html#


You couldn't get a 300 Mhz clock increase with a GTX 580 even if it was water cooled, never mind on strait air cooling using the stock cooler like the article above, and seem to minimize just how big a fight Kepler has on it's hands to beat this by a significant margin.


See the thing you don't seem to realise yet is that, according to you, the small gap that the HD7970 leads the GTX580(25%) aand doesn't make it worth the upgrade, will also be applied to the high end version kepler if it only beats the HD7970 by roughly same amount, but users have to wait months for it to be released, so if the gap is that small, brace yourself for a whole lot of bashing, but i guess you're used to it by now...
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Old 01-02-12, 12:22 PM   #158
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Default Re: Official Radeon 7970 Review and discussion thread

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See the thing you don't seem to realise yet is that, according to you, the small gap that the HD7970 leads the GTX580(25%) aand doesn't make it worth the upgrade, will also be applied to the high end version kepler if it only beats the HD7970 by roughly same amount, but users have to wait months for it to be released, so if the gap is that small, brace yourself for a whole lot of bashing, but i guess you're used to it by now...
GTX 580 - 100%
HD 7970 - 125%
GTX 780 - 156%

Think about it.
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Old 01-02-12, 12:48 PM   #159
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Default Re: Official Radeon 7970 Review and discussion thread

Radeon HD 7970 Crossfire review

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon...ssfire-review/
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Old 01-02-12, 01:02 PM   #160
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Default Re: Official Radeon 7970 Review and discussion thread

hot damn..

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Old 01-02-12, 01:10 PM   #161
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Default Re: Official Radeon 7970 Review and discussion thread

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Take it for what it is really(a rumor), but it seems that the first release of the kepler generation will be the midrange card, with the high end version that aims to beat the HD7970 coming out later...No idea on the dual GPU version of kepler to beat the HD7990 being released in early march(march 12th supposedly).


For reference, Nvidia's CEO claimed they have Kepler based prototypes in their labs since november(no specific model stated), while AMD have had Tahiti prototype GPU's( the ones used in the HD7970), since last june, and the cards are only getting launched now(7 months later), and they didn't encounter any problems that required multiple revisions or anything.


So if we apply the same rule for Kepler, assuming it's the high end version they have in their labs right now, then we won't see it on retail until may at the earliest...
All nice theories, but like I said:

"How will someone paying gouger prices for a 7970 in January feel if a card that beats it by 20-30% comes out in February or March??"

As for your thoughts on the 25% upgrade being worth it or not, I'm talking about 25% over last gen. 25% over ATi current gen is 50% over last gen, and a much better upgrade.

In regard to the mythical 400MHz OCd Sapphires, I attribute them to the same FUD crew that produces the "official" NVIDIA slides that show high end Kepler in December. ATi would have to be retarded to make stock speed 925MHz on the launch cards for press if their cards can do 1350. LOL- if Kepler is going to launch in the first half of this year the design was done long ago.
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Old 01-02-12, 02:24 PM   #162
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Default Re: Official Radeon 7970 Review and discussion thread

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All nice theories, but like I said:

"How will someone paying gouger prices for a 7970 in January feel if a card that beats it by 20-30% comes out in February or March??"

As for your thoughts on the 25% upgrade being worth it or not, I'm talking about 25% over last gen. 25% over ATi current gen is 50% over last gen, and a much better upgrade.

In regard to the mythical 400MHz OCd Sapphires, I attribute them to the same FUD crew that produces the "official" NVIDIA slides that show high end Kepler in December. ATi would have to be retarded to make stock speed 925MHz on the launch cards for press if their cards can do 1350. LOL- if Kepler is going to launch in the first half of this year the design was done long ago.

See... You're the one quoting february or march for the HD7970 killer, and really setting yourself up for a roasting if nothing shows up by then, and as far as overall performance boosts go, the HD7970 is pretty close to 50% faster than the HD6970, so what's you're point?


Is it that 50% from Nvidia for Kepler over Fermi in performance somehow worth more than the 50% you get from the HD7970 over the HD6970?...Explain?


And never mind the sapphire card at 1335 Mhz.... Look at what VR-zone managed to do with a regular HD7970 just by increasing voltage and still using the stock cooler....A 335Mhz overclock, and shamino already has a result with them cooled on LN2 at 1.7 Ghz...
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Old 01-02-12, 02:43 PM   #163
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Default Re: Official Radeon 7970 Review and discussion thread

Triple crossfire result for battlefield 3 with all 3 HD7970's purring along at 1100 Mhz clock(175 Mhz overclock).






Courtesy of VR-zone, and it seems crossfire scaling is operating extremely well.

http://vr-zone.com/articles/amd-rade...lts/14406.html
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Old 01-02-12, 03:22 PM   #164
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Default Re: Official Radeon 7970 Review and discussion thread

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See... You're the one quoting february or march for the HD7970 killer, and really setting yourself up for a roasting if nothing shows up by then, and as far as overall performance boosts go, the HD7970 is pretty close to 50% faster than the HD6970, so what's you're point?
LOL
Who do you think people will want to roast more?

Me for posting a story that says multiple sources confirm a better card is coming in this business quarter, perhaps causing people to hold off on paying etail gouger prices for a card that is soon going to look second class? (like everything else AMD does)

Or you, who tells them "It will be a long time till Keplers! Buy now like me!" and then they find themselves with cards that are worth far less, and far less attractive if the FUDZilla article is true?

Worst case scenario if I'm wrong- they do without the 7970s unremarkable performance gains for a couple months. (and buy the card(s) for less at that point and save money)

Worst case scenario if you're wrong- they own cards that are devalued by the release of better cards, and being used. So they're stuck with their decision unless they want to eat a big loss.

Sounds to me like my advice will save them money either way and the only loss is a couple months of better performance. Your reckless advice will not only cost them a lot of money if you're wrong, but lock them in a poor choice unless they want to eat a big loss.

Sounds to me like I'm on safer ground than you for the potential "roasting".

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Originally Posted by shadow001 View Post
Is it that 50% from Nvidia for Kepler over Fermi in performance somehow worth more than the 50% you get from the HD7970 over the HD6970?...Explain?
Sure. It depends on what you're looking for from ATi. If you're just looking for them to have a second place card for this gen like they always do, the 7970 is a great card. It does indeed eclipse the 6970 by 40-50% and as such is a success.

The problems come in if you hoped ATi would release an industry leader this generation with their new arch like they did when they bought the 9700 Pro off of ArtX. (or had the arguably better part with the X1900XT) Or if you are an ATi customer because you like their "cheaper but about as good" strategy. As I noted above, this is likely a quick cash grab because they know Kepler is coming soon and they'll be back to cheap soon.

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And never mind the sapphire card at 1335 Mhz.... Look at what VR-zone managed to do with a regular HD7970 just by increasing voltage and still using the stock cooler....A 335Mhz overclock, and shamino already has a result with them cooled on LN2 at 1.7 Ghz...
LOL- LN2?! They probably OC well on the moon and outside at the North Pole too, but for 99.99999999999999999% of us that doesn't matter.
Overvolting? Yeah, I always like to risk destroying my high end parts so I can either be out $500 or have to see a thief everytime I look in the mirror for that 10% extra performance.
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Old 01-02-12, 03:46 PM   #165
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Default Re: Official Radeon 7970 Review and discussion thread

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LOL
Who do you think people will want to roast more?

Me for posting a story that says multiple sources confirm a better card is coming in this business quarter, perhaps causing people to hold off on paying etail gouger prices for a card that is soon going to look second class? (like everything else AMD does)

Or you, who tells them "It will be a long time till Keplers! Buy now like me!" and then they find themselves with cards that are worth far less, and far less attractive if the FUDZilla article is true?

Worst case scenario if I'm wrong- they do without the 7970s unremarkable performance gains for a couple months. (and buy the card(s) for less at that point and save money)

Worst case scenario if you're wrong- they own cards that are devalued by the release of better cards, and being used. So they're stuck with their decision unless they want to eat a big loss.

Sounds to me like my advice will save them money either way and the only loss is a couple months of better performance. Your reckless advice will not only cost them a lot of money if you're wrong, but lock them in a poor choice unless they want to eat a big loss.

Sounds to me like I'm on safer ground than you for the potential "roasting".[

First of all, if Kepler is delayed and doesn't show up by march, AMD have no reason to lower prices at all, so your "logic" is flawed there that they'll lose value, secondly if Kepler shows up and is 50% faster than the GTX580, and thus only 25% faster than the HD7970, wich is hardly a reason for those who already own an HD7970 to get Kepler for such a small increase anyhow....Remember, you're the one who said it'll destroy an HD7970, and 25% faster isn't destroying by any means...Like the old saying goes...."You live by the sword, you also die by the sword", so there's no double standard for Nvidia and saying that 25% over the HD 7970 is destroying it performance wise, when the same 25% isn't enough to get the HD7970 over the GTX580 according to you...


Quote:
Sure. It depends on what you're looking for from ATi. If you're just looking for them to have a second place card for this gen like they always do, the 7970 is a great card. It does indeed eclipse the 6970 by 40-50% and as such is a success.

The problems come in if you hoped ATi would release an industry leader this generation with their new arch like they did when they bought the 9700 Pro off of ArtX. (or had the arguably better part with the X1900XT) Or if you are an ATi customer because you like their "cheaper but about as good" strategy. As I noted above, this is likely a quick cash grab because they know Kepler is coming soon and they'll be back to cheap soon.

That's a lot of assumptions and leaps of faith right there....I'll go for what is already relased rather than playing the smoke and mirrors game, sitting still for who knows how long until it's released, assuming they don't screw things up and release a GTX480 version with features disabled only to release the proper version 6 months later(AKA the GTX580)....People don't forget screwups that easily you know...Just saying.


Quote:
LOL- LN2?! They probably OC well on the moon and outside at the North Pole too, but for 99.99999999999999999% of us that doesn't matter.
Overvolting? Yeah, I always like to risk destroying my high end parts so I can either be out $500 or have to see a thief everytime I look in the mirror for that 10% extra performance.

Selective quoting aren't we....The overvolt in question was 1.15v to 1.25v(0.1 volt) to get that HD7970 1260Mhz, and with my GTX580's water cooled, i actually use more than that to get them running stable at 950Mhz, wich is a 180Mhz increase( not 300 Mhz+) and like i said water cooled( not using the stock air cooler).


But as usual, you don't read articles that make the HD7970 far better than you want them to be, so i'll leave it at that...
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Old 01-02-12, 03:49 PM   #166
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Default Re: Official Radeon 7970 Review and discussion thread

7970 for sale
http://www.excaliberpc.com/611611/sa...-7970-3gb.html

EDIt: It's on B.O. already.
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Old 01-02-12, 04:11 PM   #167
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Default Re: Official Radeon 7970 Review and discussion thread

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7970 for sale
http://www.excaliberpc.com/611611/sa...-7970-3gb.html

EDIt: It's on B.O. already.
Yuck waaay too expensive. I hope it's just that high because of supply issues.
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Old 01-02-12, 04:32 PM   #168
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Default Re: Official Radeon 7970 Review and discussion thread

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First of all, if Kepler is delayed and doesn't show up by march, AMD have no reason to lower prices at all, so your "logic" is flawed there that they'll lose value,
Prices always drop over time, etailers start competing, running sales to stimulate sales. (unless supplies are so limited they can gouge away)

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secondly if Kepler shows up and is 50% faster than the GTX580, and thus only 25% faster than the HD7970, wich is hardly a reason for those who already own an HD7970 to get Kepler for such a small increase anyhow....Remember, you're the one who said it'll destroy an HD7970, and 25% faster isn't destroying by any means...Like the old saying goes...."You live by the sword, you also die by the sword", so there's no double standard for Nvidia and saying that 25% over the HD 7970 is destroying it performance wise.
Here, I'll make it easy for you:
Is it more impressive to be:
A. 25% faster than last gen best and 25% slower than current gen best? (7970)
B. 25% faster than current gen second best, 50% faster than last gen best, and current gen best? (kepler)

No "double standard" here, just easy to comprehend facts you're trying to spin away.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow001 View Post

That's a lot of assumptions and leaps of faith right there....I'll go for what is already relased rather than playing the smoke and mirrors game, sitting still for who knows how long until it's released, assuming they don't screw things up and release a GTX480 version with features disabled only to release the proper version 6 months later(AKA the GTX580)....People don't forget screwups that easily you know...Just saying.
Personally I'm only recommending people wait till the end of Q1, if NVIDIA hasn't shown their hand by then, buy away. For most people $550+ is a lot of money to make a mistake.

As far as your attempt to FUD goes by mentioning the 480 being late, I actually communicate with NVIDIA staff occasionally. I'll just say I'm comfortable with my recommendation people wait. The first card launched isn't always the one to have.




Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow001 View Post
Selective quoting aren't we....The overvolt in question was 1.15v to 1.25v(0.1 volt) to get that HD7970 1260Mhz, and with my GTX580's water cooled, i actually use more than that to get them running stable at 950Mhz, wich is a 180Mhz increase( not 300 Mhz+) and like i said water cooled( not using the stock air cooler).
Your comparisons are meaningless. Different architecture, different die size. You can't predict Kepler OCing in any way with Fermi OCing. There's FUD, and then there's stupid FUD. Your FUD here is the latter.

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But as usual, you don't read articles that make the HD7970 far better than you want them to be, so i'll leave it at that...
I wish the 7970 was 10X faster than the 580, had DVI output 3d that didn't rely on 3rd party drivers from some penny ante company, had physx and had AO, and had driver profiles for games when they launch- I'd buy two.

But they don't. They only give 15-25% more performance and don't have any of that stuff, so to me they're a ripoff at $550 or likely more.
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